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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 11:20 am 
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Here in old NZ the team that i ride for occasionally has to recruit from other parts of the country. One of our recruits rides a TT similar to a large rock thrown from a tall cliff. He runs 20 seconds slower over 46km than the current NZ Time Trial Champion and has a small rivalry with said champion. IF for the purposes of this experiment (as ill call it) the rider is on top form and will ride as fast as his body will allow on the perfectly set up bike on race day (mid Jan), what watt savings can people give an opinion about? I recall info on tyres, chain lubes and ceramics make, but cant find links. If we can make a single watt gain in one aspect of his bike and set up, but do it multiple times then i see no reason why the 20 second gap can not be narrowed. So this is what id love to know:

- Any data that you could link me to watt savings on components etc
- Watt savings on gear (shoes helmets gloves etc)
- Any ideas that youve had, i have the means to build and alter every part of the bike,
- Rulings on fairings (pedal aero plates and other custom fairings)
- Anything you would change that is blindingly obvious.

As i ride TTs but dont really look into the data of it all id love to hear from rider who has an inkling of an idea. Id love top see this guy win, hes a top bloke.

Heres the bike (ill get a full race spec list from him asap!)

Image

Thanks for your help WW :thumbup:

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Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 11:20 am 


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 11:34 am 
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Disk. Absolute no-brainer. Regardless of how windy it is.

Time in a wind tunnel for position.

I believe (and will stand corrected) that the morphological ruling next year will be such that you can choose one of either saddle offset or aero bar extension as your 'allowance'. If he's fine with his saddle position, could mean that more reach might get him more aero?

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 1:04 pm 
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Zipp 808 or Hed H3 front.

Might save 5+ Watt @ 50 km/h:

Image

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 1:35 pm 
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Tires, tubes, skewers and wheel choice can make a big difference. Are you using latex tubes and what tires. View Speed skewers have much less drag. Is the cassette sized right for the course. An 11 to 28 will create more drag than an 11-21 if you can use an 11 - 21. Is he using the correct aero helmet for his riding style? Return to center shifters will have less drag than like those pointing down. What skinsuit will he be wearing.

If you could post a equipment and build list that would be helpful.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 1:46 pm 
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weeracerweenie wrote:
- Anything you would change that is blindingly obvious.


Aero TT setups is a hobby of mine...

No Lightweights in a TT. Best front would be a Zipp 808 FC, Hed 90, or Enve 80. Disc rear. He will easily save more than 20sec right there. Some good data here from Tour. http://www.tour-magazin.de/services/qtr ... page3.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Tires. The high TPI cotton casings with glued on tread are good for low rolling resistance but suck for aero... unfortunately. I think the issue is the shape and little lip where the tread meets the sidewall. Still for tubulars, I'd look at the Vittoria Crono... and also the Conti track tires... or the Podium if you are worried about flats. Frankly if I was going for a national championship and running tubulars I'd probably open up some Conti's and replace the tubes with a latex ones.

But... you don't need tubulars. Clinchers are just as fast in a TT... in which case the Conti Supersonics with latex tubes is the best.

Apparently skinsuits make a difference. I've heard from someone who does a lot of testing that the Castelli BP 2 tests consistently well. A new model is coming out that should be even better.

Helmets are highly individual. It needs to fit tight at the sides, and is probably best if it fills in the gap between the head and shoulders. I'd look a the LG P09 and Spec Macleran.

Tweaking position. You don't need a wind tunnel, but you *do* need a PM. If time is short though, I wouldn't worry about that.

That's the low hanging fruit. The BMC frame isn't the fastest BTW, but I'm guessing that would be difficult or impossible to swap for a Cervelo, Canyon, or Scott.

EDIT: Oh chainlube... Jason at FrictionFacts did a test recently and found good old waxing with molybdenum disulfide and teflon added to the mix was fastest. 2nd best was Rock n Roll gold. High teflon, non-cleaning lubes are best... and it's a few watts... shouldn't be ignored. He also sells DA chains that he has treated for a very reasonable price.

High quality ceramic derailleur pulley bearings are another easy one. Bearings all over the bike should be looked at. Very light grease, proper adjustment, etc.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 2:11 pm 
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Veloflex record on Latex tubes for clincher option or crono evo vitt for tubbie.
Cover the back of the pedal a la Tony Martin.
Shimano DA chain prepped with parafin, molyslip and teflon (I have the ultra sonic cleaner to start that process, stop round and borrow it). Chain raced fresh prepped at 200km old. Shimano cassette (DA)
Wheels as per advice before.
Position, position position and position........get hold of Mark Jermey (@canty Uni) and get in that wind tunnel.
Look at the wind around the seat clamp/seat junction.....any good? (No??......get busy!)
Ride mega ks on it.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 2:36 pm 
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That's a pretty big loop of cable for the rear mech!


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 3:18 pm 
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theremery wrote:
Veloflex record on Latex tubes for clincher option


Those unfortunately suck for aero, and the Crr isn't good enough to make up for it. Supersonics are the best, but some claim that the GP4000S is so good for aero on wide rims, that it makes up for it's Crr deficit.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 3:24 pm 
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All the above +:
A closed crankset. That Shimano one is not very aero.
Experiment with some QXL rings. Very easy to see if there's a gain for him or not.
No gloves or aerogloves.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 5:08 pm 
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@WMW- The H3 is also very quick. ;)

I'd go with Simon Smart's stuff for skinsuits and shoes covers. Not only is the guy the de facto aero guru, but both Botty and Shaw have absolutely torn up the TT's this season (as well as the rest of the Drag2Zero team). http://www.smartaerotechnology.com/wp/smart-aero-products/clothing/

What you'd gain from changing the chainset and rear mech for aero models is beyond negligible. As others have said, position is key (as well as a disc). Botty's is amazing.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 7:04 pm 
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Not wanting to derail the topic, but i've been getting hammered regularly by Matt for years. He'd be quick on a shopping bike....

Back to the original post-
bin the LW's. Replace with Disc + something else. LWs aren't supposed to be very aero compared to what else is about now. Its probably why they're quite easy to ride..
Without seeing any action pics (not stationary/trainer etc) we can only guess what his position is like.
Wind tunnel? Theres plenty fast enough that havent been near one; its just the "latest" thing ;-)

You have plenty of time til the champs- you're going to gain more by smarter training between now and then, than what you would by possible minute gains.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 8:39 pm 
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Grill wrote:
@WMW- The H3 is also very quick. ;)
Image


i know absolutely nothing about TTs, and this guy's position looks on point. all flat back and all.

i did watch the british champs this year though. crazy he's doing that with a day job!


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:46 pm 
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Shoe covers don't necessarily improve aero, but I do remember that gloves are slower than no gloves (as can be seen by that same rider)


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:23 pm 
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This topic is fresh in my mind as I just set-up a TT bike for a successful World Record attempt. I didnt read all the posts but I did see a few relevant things to keep in mind. So, good info so far.
There are a couple of "secrets" to add I think. PM me if you want.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 11:52 pm 
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justkeepedaling wrote:
Shoe covers don't necessarily improve aero, but I do remember that gloves are slower than no gloves (as can be seen by that same rider)


Indeed, the shoes make a much bigger difference. Botty normally uses Bont Cronos, however for UCI events I suspect he changes to Bont Zeros. Eliminate the ratchet and smooth the airflow.


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Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 11:52 pm 


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