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 Post subject: srm
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 12:53 pm 
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So can you now do AP and power on the same screen and does it have NP?

What a joke? Its not even a high-end product anymore. Their PMs are no more accurate, robust, or capable than anything else. I cannot see why anyone would buy a SRM over a P2M Type S (also made in Germany).

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:12 pm 
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Kwalker I would have to disagree. I have owned two powertaps, four(and been exclusive mechanic to two more) quarqs and now have two SRMs. The quarqs had to constantly be serviced, living in the midwest during a harsh winter really just didn't agree with them. The powertaps batteries go out constantly and their own computer is really bad in my opinion. The SRMs though have worked flawlessly since installation. I am running them with a garmin and that is the only thing that ever seems to give me grief in the power department.

The new PC8 also looks great, it has many functions that we were hoping for, like some customization, GPS, and user profiles, plus just look at the thing its very pretty. When it comes out I will surely be bolting one on to my bikes.

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Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:12 pm 


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 Post subject: Re: Why SRM?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 4:57 pm 
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KWalker wrote:
I cannot see why anyone would buy a SRM over a P2M Type S (also made in Germany).


Because it's the only one that offers a Q-factor of 145.5mm?
At least I couldn't find any other crank based PM that has such a low Q-factor.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 7:28 pm 
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claus wrote:
KWalker wrote:
I cannot see why anyone would buy a SRM over a P2M Type S (also made in Germany).


Because it's the only one that offers a Q-factor of 145.5mm?
At least I couldn't find any other crank based PM that has such a low Q-factor.


Or...the Power2Max Type S Cannondale if you are running a compatible frame.

I would agree though. I am just wishing the newer SRM chassis for Campag will be available soon. Aesthetically I think SRM still have the edge, but the price paid for that non-performance related advantage is increasingly hard to justify.


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 Post subject: Re: Why SRM?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 10:03 pm 
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claus wrote:
KWalker wrote:
I cannot see why anyone would buy a SRM over a P2M Type S (also made in Germany).


Because it's the only one that offers a Q-factor of 145.5mm?
At least I couldn't find any other crank based PM that has such a low Q-factor.

Q-factor is based on the crank and not the spider, so as long as the cranks are the same it doesn't matter if it's an SRM or P2M. I don't know enough about SRM or P2M to know if there is a low Q-factor crank offered on one and not the other, though.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 4:45 pm 
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shoopdawoop wrote:
Kwalker I would have to disagree. I have owned two powertaps, four(and been exclusive mechanic to two more) quarqs and now have two SRMs. The quarqs had to constantly be serviced, living in the midwest during a harsh winter really just didn't agree with them. The powertaps batteries go out constantly and their own computer is really bad in my opinion. The SRMs though have worked flawlessly since installation. I am running them with a garmin and that is the only thing that ever seems to give me grief in the power department.

The new PC8 also looks great, it has many functions that we were hoping for, like some customization, GPS, and user profiles, plus just look at the thing its very pretty. When it comes out I will surely be bolting one on to my bikes.


Power2Max is almost as light, more robust, and fractions of the price. Also more temperature stable.

SRMs are fairly reliable, but the tech is behind the time.

The PC8 doesn't do NP or really anything that computers that are 25% of the price can't do. They depend on people like you that are not smart enough to make an efficient decision to keep paying them premium prices for outdated tech. Sorry, that is just the way it is. The PC8 does what Garmins did 4 years ago, but with a cooler looking casing.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 5:39 pm 
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But KWalker, SRMs & PCs are what the pros use! :roll:


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 5:48 pm 
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I would also add that some of the answers they gave DC rainmaker, are not promising... not "seeing" the need for left and right? They talk about being "high end product" and we really haven't seen any innovation from them.

Pioneer and Garmin currently showing graphs of where the power is applied in the pedal stroke. I am sure that we will have this before you get PC8 with "GPS" : )

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 6:52 pm 
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Pharmstrong wrote:
But KWalker, SRMs & PCs are what the pros use! :roll:


Not them all...... :mrgreen:

Omega Pharma-Quick Step use Quarq power meter
Belkin use Pioneer power meter

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 8:04 pm 
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SRM seems to be the CarbonSports/Lightweight of the power meter market.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 10:44 pm 
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KWalker wrote:
more robust, and fractions of the price. Also more temperature stable.

SRMs are fairly reliable, but the tech is behind the time.

The PC8 doesn't do NP or really anything that computers that are 25% of the price can't do. They depend on people like you that are not smart enough to make an efficient decision to keep paying them premium prices for outdated tech. Sorry, that is just the way it is. The PC8 does what Garmins did 4 years ago, but with a cooler looking casing.

Links to prove this?

And I don't know anyone who trains with NP, so...


prendrefeu wrote:
SRM seems to be the CarbonSports/Lightweight of the power meter market.

I don't see how that is a valid analogy. Especially given they are the choice of 90% of the Pro peloton.



I also split this off, as to not de-rail the Eurobike thread.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 11:36 pm 
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KWalker wrote:
Power2Max is almost as light, more robust, and fractions of the price. Also more temperature stable.

SRMs are fairly reliable, but the tech is behind the time.

The PC8 doesn't do NP or really anything that computers that are 25% of the price can't do. They depend on people like you that are not smart enough to make an efficient decision to keep paying them premium prices for outdated tech. Sorry, that is just the way it is. The PC8 does what Garmins did 4 years ago, but with a cooler looking casing.


Okay a couple of things, I dont own a PC7, I have a garmin 500. I wish I had a power control, it seems the superior system. Simple, accurate (takes twice the readings that a garmin does) and has all the information you need to do workouts. Why do you need NP mid ride?

What makes you think a p2max is as robust as a SRM? Go read wattage and you'll find scores of people still using wired cranks and power controls and they are still giving accurate readings after 10 years. Ive had 2 garmins over the last year break from water damage and crashes and the buttons go bad so quickly.

Their charging premium prices because their products just work. Its why DA and ultegra are expensive and carbonsports wheels; bolt and forget is the best.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 12:16 am 
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The Power2Max Type S (and all units) have a built in temperature compensation mechanism. The nature of how it works is propriety, but DCRainMaker and other testers found that the units did not drift with temperature and altitude changes. Neither Quarq nor SRM have this unless you re-zero.

Another thing I don't like about the SRM calibration method is that they don't use an ergometer and still use a known weight in a jig. This works, somewhat, but they do not account for the parasitic torque lost in the jig and its often why when you do a static calibration even with a brand new unit its different. Its minute in practice and the units are still accurate, but when you pay that much coin for an SRM you expect every little detail to be taken care of.

Don't get me wrong- I've had 2 SRMs and loved them. Both blew my Quarqs out of the water. The SRM USA customer service is great and has been super responsive/helpful. Prend has it right- the Lightweights of powermeters at this point. The attitude of not caring about lower end products for normal consumers is kind of a bummer.

With Powertap, Quarq, Power2Max, Vector, and Stages all coming in under $1800 its a bit hard to justify the cost. You can get a Stages (which isn't perfect), for the price of a PC8.

I do like the PC8's metal construction and it is easy to read I just feel that it could be a lot more than it turned out to be. I had super high hopes to buy one, but the inability for it to work with anything else doesn't make sense.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 12:42 am 
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Tinea Pedis wrote:
prendrefeu wrote:
SRM seems to be the CarbonSports/Lightweight of the power meter market.

I don't see how that is a valid analogy. Especially given they are the choice of 90% of the Pro peloton.


If I may explain?
Lightweights were the first really prominent penultimate carbon wheels. The Pros rode them. We even have a thread created that was devoted to "pros riding lightweights" that's how highly people looked up to them. The Pros rode them, we should too, etc:. They had virtually no competitors out there for a long time for what they were doing with wheel tech.

SRM was the first truly strong powermeter on the market. Because they were the first with virtually no competitors out there for a long time, and because training-with-power became the thing to do in the Pro Peloton, we saw the Pros ride them. Most continue to do so now only because of sponsorship or precedence, but their stranglehold on the pro peloton is decreasing and will continue to decrease as other, sometimes better, options are made available and prove their worth.

On the consumer side:
-Everyone looked up to lightweight as the ultimate bling. "Look at me! I'm riding the same wheels that [pro] rode in the Tour!"
-If you have an SRM PCx on the front of your handlebars you look Pro. Because SRMs are used by the Pros. "Look at me! I'm using the same powermeter as the pros!"

On the actual product side:
-Lightweights are still light, but they haven't really improved much in the tech department. They are no longer the preferred wheel for tech. Bling? Sure, but the desire for bling is decreasing as people learn about aero, as people are able to match the weights with wheels that are re-buildable and truable with normal spokes, more availability, and better prices. Lightweights are great wheels, but getting quickly outdated. Do they still look sexy? Yes. They have that going for them. Carbonsports hasn't changed much, they're just barely keeping appearances.
-SRM is still the go-to... for now. PC8 finally comes around, but it just produces capabilities that other makers have had for years. The powermeter? Competitors are now lighter, more accurate, more affordable, more compatible, more available, more capable. SRMs are great powermeters, but getting quickly outdated. Does the PCx look sexy out front of the handlebars? Yes. They have that going for them. SRM hasn't changed much, they're just barely keeping appearances.

If you thought you were reading things twice, it was intentional.

There you go. I believe it was an apt comparison.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 1:07 am 
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Are SRM still the market leader?

I think right now they are, but just by a little, I expect at that Garmin, will pass them some time middle of next year : )

It's about how the guys who design the products think. SRM, take it or leave it we are the best, Garmin/Metrigear we are going to be the best, Metrigear showed were they are going and talked about during the Vector release. I think Metrigear said that lab versions are coming and I think that dc rainmaker said that garmin, has a long term plan with software and hardware tracks. We are going to see a family of vector products.

Also don't discount the Gamin riders giving feedback, I would expect that, that relationship is going to be better than SRM and it's pros. Just guessing : )

Some of this also becomes about $$$ I do think having the vectors in every bike shop in the world will lead to more sales and more profits, and that should lead to better vectors. I would guess in two years every Fred( like me) will have one : ) Just like how the heart rate monitor market changed and grew. Polar lost it to Garmin.

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Posted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 1:07 am 


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