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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 4:11 pm 
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So, a number of unfortunate events (maybe fortunate after all) has lead to me having very little time constraints to take in account when planning my training for the next 12 months. Besides having to wash my own bike and clothing, I have pretty much all the time I need. There's plenty of talk on how to do time constrained training plans, but not so much the other way around.

So how would you train if you had nothing else significant to worry about?


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Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 4:11 pm 


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 4:51 pm 
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You should ride a lot and make sure you've got good recovery habits. The best overarching training paper I have read is this one-

http://www.sportsci.org/2009/ss.htm

Ride rest repeat!

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 4:44 pm 
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I also recommend Joe Friel's Cyclist's Training Bible
http://www.amazon.com/The-Cyclists-Trai ... 1934030201" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There are big benefits to long rides at a HR of about 70% of HR Max. Do intervals too, and do hard group rides, but those long recovery rides are crucial. Too many people just go do group rides every day. That doesn't optimize for building fitness. Stress and adapt means going hard and then allowing your body to recover and build more for next time, and THAT is how you get fit, not constantly breaking yourself down without the proper recovery. That said, recovery doesn't mean time off. It means time easy. You can still grow mitochondria and increase capillary size and help your muscles heal with added blood flow on easy days.

But in the end, cycling is all about TITS. Time In The Saddle.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 5:46 pm 
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I find a good weight training regimen has really helped out my riding. I mainly focus on my upper body, since my legs get a lot of work on the bike. However, working my arms, back, chest and core have really helped me develop better stamina on the bike.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 9:29 pm 
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jockster wrote:
So how would you train if you had nothing else significant to worry about?


What most of us time limited people miss out on is the volume. I'd work up to riding 25+ hrs/week at whatever intensity I could manage and still recover. If you are in a base building phase anyway, I'd avoid intensity all together for a few months. Then mix in some intensity to build towards competition.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 2:05 am 
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RIde lots, a good deal of volume at lower intensities, such as 60-70% FTP for extended length of time (4h+). Some good recovery strategy and a few very high intensity workouts to top it off.

Of course it would depend on your experience and background, but if it would be me, I'd do it that way as an overall training concept


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 9:27 am 
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What are you training for? What are you trying to achieve? Answer those questions (at least for yourself) first.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 2:07 pm 
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Yes, some more background information would make giving an extended and more helpful response more possible. What type of racing/riding are you targeting? What are your strengths as a rider and weaknesses? Do you have a power meter? Have you considered a coach?

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 5:54 pm 
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Don't forget that you need to build up to higher volume.
If you have only been doing 10 hrs per week, 25 might be too much.
Only increase to the level that your body can assimilate.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 1:37 am 
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^

Good point. Too much too quickly is sure to lead to IT band and other connective tissue problems.


Last edited by ipdamages on Wed Aug 28, 2013 6:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 9:23 pm 
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Haven't really done any structured training until this year, which also is when I got my power meter. In the past I just used to "ride lots" every now and then.

This season I've been mainly focusing on my FTP to break the 4.0w/kg barrier, which I already would have done unless a nasty infection had taken a handful of weeks off my schedule. The FTP has been increasing slowly but steady over the season, so I believe I am on the right track. No racing planned or done either this or next season that I need to worry out about.

At the moment, still being time-crunched in my mindset, I've based my training around doing a set of FTP intervals weekly - either 2x20s or 4x10s. On top of that comes two or three hour-long SST efforts, along with one or two recovery rides done at Z1 and eventually a 3-4hr long endurance or a shorter, intense group ride. All together this adds up to something like 6-700TSS/weekly with 2-3hrs spend at and above L3 a week. I make sure to take one day per week completely off the bike.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 6:20 am 
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shoopdawoop wrote:
You should ride a lot and make sure you've got good recovery habits. The best overarching training paper I have read is this one-

http://www.sportsci.org/2009/ss.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Hmmm, interesting. I've always been an "intensity for immensity" guy, ever since I was doing weights as a teenager, but this might change things a bit -- or I assume not everyone responds this well? And I suppose who knows exactly how good his high-intensity training was before he was coached properly.

From the article:

Case study #1
From Soccer Pro to Elite Cyclist
Knut Anders Fostervold was a professional soccer player in the Norwegian elite league from 1994 to 2002. A knee injury ended his soccer career at age 30 and he decided to switch to cycling. Knut had very high natural endurance capacity and had run 5 km in 17:24 at age 12.

After 15 y of soccer training at the elite level, he adopted a highly intensive training regime for cycling that was focused on training just under or at his lactate threshold and near VO2max; for example, 2-3 weekly training sessions of 4-5 × 4 min at 95 %VO2max. Weekly training volume did not exceed 10 h.
After 2.5 years of this high-intensity, low-volume training, Fostervold initiated cooperation with the Norwegian Olympic Center and his training program was radically reorganized. Weekly training volume was doubled from 8-10 h to 18-20. Training volume in Zone 2 was reduced dramatically and replaced with a larger volume of training in Zone 1. Training in Zone 5 was replaced with Zones 3 and 4, such that total training volume at intensities at or above lactate threshold was roughly doubled without overstressing the athlete. The typical effective duration of interval sessions increased from ~20 min to ~ 60 min (for example 8 × 8 min at 85-90 %HRmax with 2-min recoveries). The intensity zones were initially based on heart rate but later adjusted relative to lactate and power output measurements made in the field. Table 7 shows the training intensity distribution and volume loading for the athlete during the season before and after the change in training to a high-volume program. Table 8 shows the outcome.

Table 7. Comparison of weekly training intensity distribution and total volume in 2004 season and 2005 season – Case 1.
Intensity zone

.Zone..........................2004................2005
(%HRmax)............hours:min............hours:min[/u]
5 (95-100 %).........0:45 (8.5 %).........0:05 (0.5 % of week)
4 (90-95 )................0.....................0:40 (4.0 %)
3 (85-90 %)............0:30 (5.5 %).......1:00 (5.5 %)
2 (75-85 %)............3:05 (36 %).........1:00 (5.5 %)
1 (55-75 %)............4:20 (50 %)........15:20 (85 %)
Weekly totals..........8hr40m...............18hr:05m
Annual totals...........420hrs..............850hrs


Table 8. Physiological testing before and after training reorganization – Case 1.
................Pre....8wk.post...18 wk......Change 0-18 wk
VO2max.......81.........90.........88..........11 %
VO2max.....6.8..........7.3........7.3..........7 %
LT power....375w.......420w....440w.......14 %
W/kg-1:......4.5.........5.2.......5.2............15 %

The athlete responded well to the training load amplification and reorganization. During the 2005 season, after 2.5 y performing a low-volume, high-intensity program, a season training with higher volume and lower average intensity resulted in marked physiological and performance improvement. Although the athlete’s training de-emphasized both training near his lactate threshold intensity and training at near VO2max, both of these physiological anchors improved markedly.
Fostervold won a bronze medal in the Norwegian national time-trial championships, seconds behind former world under-23 time trial champions and Tour de France stage winners Thor Hushovd and Kurt Asle Arvesen. His failure to perform even better, given his exceptionally high VO2max, was attributed to poorer cycling efficiency and aerodynamics and a lower fractional utilization at lactate threshold compared to the best professionals with many years of specific training. In 2006 and 2007 he represented Norway in the world championship time trial. His absolute VO2max in 2005 was equal to the highest ever measured in a Norwegian athlete.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 8:24 am 
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Interesting, of course you always have to take the progression into account. If you take a talented athlete who had been training high-volume low-intensity for years, emphasizing intensity might be the ticket.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 8:09 am 
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Yeah, echoing wassertreter here, I think the most important things to do before embarking on this journey would be to find out more about your own engine and physiological make up. 1 or 2 lab tests should reveal what you're working with and help to set out where you need to go. Even if it doesn't reveal much, it'll create a workable baseline which is very important as well. On top of all that, if you're going to be doing huge volume, I'd also make sure your bike fit is spot on too.

edit- something that also strikes me in that study is that the starting LT 4.5 w/kg is really low for a guy w/ 81 vo2 max. At the start of the season (very limited cycling for 5 months) and a not too dissimilar sporting background (not endurance sport trained, but high sprint/recover/sprint again fitness, and I'm really a mesomorph, which I would bet this guys is too at 84 kgs) I was coming in at 70 vo2 max and LT around 4.5 w/kg and working at around a Vo2 of 58 @ LT and after 2 months of training (mostly medium to harder intensity, 10 hours/week) I was able to work up to 65 Vo2 @ LT. My point being, this guy had a huge amount of improvement to be done between his LT and Vo2 max which gap would be absolutely filled by doing more endurance work. Everyone's engine is different, that's why you should get your tested to be able to target your training and get the most out of it.


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Posted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 8:09 am 


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:26 pm 
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Here is another slight counter to LSD 80/20 like in the article. Its with JTL talking about muscle fibre and training load (or that was the part that was really striking for me training wise).

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/15326 ... -form.aspx

It was posted on wattage a few days ago. If you dont read wattage and your looking for training advice that is a good place is start. It is mostly about the use of, and fixing of a powermeter but if you look back through the threads you will see some of the top coaches in the country debating what the best training plans and intervals are.

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