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 Post subject: Custom WW shoes
PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 4:02 am 
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Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 10:05 am
Posts: 7
Made some shoes, hansen-style (well, sort of).

Image

Image

First impressions.... good for a first go. 115.6 grams w/o cleats. The cleat hardware by itself weighs nearly 12 grams. Since I moulded my feet without socks, they're a little tight while wearing socks (and a little hard not wearing any). Sole is stiff like nothing else, though. Probably too stiff... with a bit less carbon there, the weight would probably be ~90 grams :D

Next model I'll make room for socks, incorporate a 1-2mm EVA insole and take a bit more time making the lacing system (plus get some better laces). Uni's just started again and I'm going away for a few tours, so it might be a while before I get enough time :cry:


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 Post subject: Custom WW shoes
Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 4:02 am 


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 Post subject: Re: Custom WW shoes
PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 7:42 am 
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Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:20 pm
Posts: 1242
Location: New Zealand
3 or 4 bolt drilling? Need more photos eg the underneath, actually wearing them. How is the ankle stability etc?

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 Post subject: Re: Custom WW shoes
PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 7:54 am 
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Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 7:36 am
Posts: 53
Great stuff make sure to tell us a bit about materials and your construction method etc.


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 Post subject: Re: Custom WW shoes
PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 8:21 am 
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Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2006 11:36 pm
Posts: 46
Location: The Netherlands
Cool project.

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 Post subject: Re: Custom WW shoes
PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 8:25 am 
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Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 4:18 am
Posts: 381
Location: Australia
Another Aussie engineer - which uni are you at?

Well done with shoes - an excellent prototype!

I also noticed the shallow rear heel - perhaps something to address in the next iteration.


All the best,

Illuminate


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 Post subject: Re: Custom WW shoes
PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 10:07 am 
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Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 10:05 am
Posts: 7
Some more pictures

Image

Image

Image

Image

Re construction, I made it up as I went. First I made a cast of my food with a wedge under my toes to lift them up into a neutral position. Cut it off, taped it back together and then filled it with plaster to form my last.

I then made a section over the sole of the last and around over the back of the heel with 2 layers of carbon. Once this dried, I put some plastic wrap over it. I them formed a bit of clay over it to make the shape right for the cleat to go on. I also made a ridge down the sole to stiffen it up. I then laid up four layers of carbon over the top of this. Once it cured, I could take it off (since I had the plastic wrap underneath as a release) and remove the clay. I matched up the location of the cleats on my other shoe and drilled the holes in the outer sole.

I then took the inner carbon sole and wrapped one piece of cf all over it to form the upper. Once it cured, I cut it down to the shape you see on the pics. I then removed the plaster last by.... destroying it. I then made the lace loops and the cover out of sailcloth. I bonded the threads (just t-nuts with the spikes bent back and then ground down a bit) into the holes and then the outer sole onto the inner structure, with the sailcloth in position to put it in place. Voila!

The ankle stability's actually ok. I used a wedge like I do my normal shoe and it felt ok out of the saddle.

Yeah, you're right. The heel is a little low,though it looks worse than it is because the side is also a little too high (it nearly cuts into my ankle bone).

I'm in Brissie, at the University of Queensland. Mech eng.

I'm looking forward to having another go. I need to get a vaccum setup to improve the finish a bit. It's so matte because I wrapped the carbon in the fabric from an old umbrella (yes) and then taped it up during curing. Primitive, but it worked.


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 Post subject: Re: Custom WW shoes
PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 2:44 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 3:03 am
Posts: 1901
Location: Islip, NY
Boy you got to do a better job shaving your legs!

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 Post subject: Custom WW shoes
PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 4:02 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 3:04 am
Posts: 2385
Location: Mississippi
^ this!! Probably a flexibility issue?? You probably ride a Fizik Kurve Bull, not a Snake.... :noidea:

Nice work on the boots though! I would guess that V2 will be much cleaner....but these look functional and light!

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 Post subject: Re: Custom WW shoes
PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 9:25 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2010 8:05 pm
Posts: 15
Location: Poland
These shoes look like Boots of speed +5 from RPG game :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: Custom WW shoes
PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 3:59 am 
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Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 10:05 am
Posts: 7
You don't need to shave where you're wearing socks!

Wait, I just made a carbon shoe and weighed it to within 1/10 of a gram. There's probably at least that there in hairs. Hypocrite much? :oops:


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 Post subject: Custom WW shoes
PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 5:08 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2010 4:42 pm
Posts: 71
If you can't get hold of vacuum bagging equipment, I found wrapping in duct tape works pretty well. Use the same spacer/soaker layers as for vacuum bag, then roll on the duct tape.

Instead of clay, look up Q-cells - a light weight filler powder that you mix up with epoxy. Or use a stiff sandwich foam and epoxy the nuts into it. The advantage of the foam would be you could pre-shape and lay up all in one hit. Q-cells might be a bit easier for prototyping - lay up inside, then q-cells, shape, lay up over the top. Either way, make sure you've figured out a way to have absolute confidence that the nuts will stay put when you put the power down!


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 Post subject: Re: Custom WW shoes
PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 7:06 am 
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Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2012 3:15 pm
Posts: 183
You're missing a crucial step in the shoemaking process, you need a last to mould the shoe around. Moulding straight over the foot won't work in the long run, the foot needs to be able to move and bend so allowances need to places in the dimensions of the last to accommodate the foots movement.

Getting a last made to your measure isn't all that easy, I could make you one because I'm a bespoke shoemaker, but I don't know of anyone is Aus doing it. You could try casting the inside of a shoe that's fits you well and using that ad your last though.


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 Post subject: Re: Custom WW shoes
PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 8:04 am 
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Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 10:05 am
Posts: 7
DuncanS wrote:
If you can't get hold of vacuum bagging equipment, I found wrapping in duct tape works pretty well. Use the same spacer/soaker layers as for vacuum bag, then roll on the duct tape.

Instead of clay, look up Q-cells - a light weight filler powder that you mix up with epoxy. Or use a stiff sandwich foam and epoxy the nuts into it. The advantage of the foam would be you could pre-shape and lay up all in one hit. Q-cells might be a bit easier for prototyping - lay up inside, then q-cells, shape, lay up over the top. Either way, make sure you've figured out a way to have absolute confidence that the nuts will stay put when you put the power down!


Yeah, that's one thing I did leave out. I wrapped the layup in the umbrella fabric ( I read somewhere it was good as a breather and released well once it had cured) and then wrapped it in a lot of electrical tape to compress it. I'm also thinking of just getting one of those food vaccum packing machines and use that next time. Small steps...

I was sort of leaning towards foam for the next iteration, for sure. Moulding it in two pieces and then bonding it together is not perfect. Q-cells could also be helpful, for sure... Cheers.

I put heaps of carbon in the cleat area (there's probably close to 6 layers there) with that in mind haha. I'm thinking I might use a more shear-resistant composite (kevlar?) in the area for safety. One of my friends has a CNC machine and I was thinking of getting him to machine a three-bolt plate from aluminium to distribute the loads more evenly. I've already got the CAD drawing for it done, courtesy of procrastination.

Zakalwe wrote:
You're missing a crucial step in the shoemaking process, you need a last to mould the shoe around. Moulding straight over the foot won't work in the long run, the foot needs to be able to move and bend so allowances need to places in the dimensions of the last to accommodate the foots movement.

Getting a last made to your measure isn't all that easy, I could make you one because I'm a bespoke shoemaker, but I don't know of anyone is Aus doing it. You could try casting the inside of a shoe that's fits you well and using that ad your last though.


I mentioned above I made a cast of my foot (with the toes under a wedge to lift them up) and then filled that with plaster to form my last :wink:

I do admit it's hard getting it right. Once I got the plaster last, I got some filler and extended it a bit at the toes and made a layer over the top of the whole thing to allow me to wear socks (but that didn't work well...). I then wrapped it in electrical tape. I believe most custom cycling shoe makers use the customer's last to make the inner sole and then use a standard last modified to the customer's dimensions for the outer.

Cool that you're a shoemaker! I've really come to admire some of the work people are doing and I'm pretty keen to go to a course (if I can find one) in the next break to learn some of the techniques.


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 Post subject: Re: Custom WW shoes
PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 3:27 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2012 3:15 pm
Posts: 183
If you're interested in it, there's one guy I know of in Aus who's got a book and some videos online, can't vouch for his level of expertise but he seems to know the basics of sewing, lasting and the rest - goes by the name of Tim Skyrme, might be a decent starting point for you. There's also a forum called the crispin colloquy where some guys, mainly in the USA, talk over technical stuff.

It's a pretty deep subject though, there's a lot of steps and many distinct skills required for each stage so lots to learn. If you have any questions I'd be happy to give my opinion on what might help along the way so just feel free to ask.


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 Post subject: Re: Custom WW shoes
PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 5:29 pm 
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Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2003 2:25 am
Posts: 4515
Location: Canada
Fun project! That is what WW is all about.


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 Post subject: Re: Custom WW shoes
Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 5:29 pm 


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