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PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 12:50 pm 
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re: the pricing, it doesn't look so bad if we hit 13-30 order volume, which would seem to be likely, no? Like anyone else, if given a choice I'd rather pay less than more, but since I generally use/ride/wear my equipment for its entire useable life, I'd rather spend a little more if the resulting kit was better.

I'm excited for the order and thanks for getting it going.

I couldn't find it on the jlvelo site - is there info on the inseam length of the bibs? The cut looks like a good length, but it's so hard to tell.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 1:01 pm 
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I personally love Champion System stuff so it is all good for me.....I would certainly buy more if we went with Champ Sys.

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Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 1:01 pm 


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 1:30 pm 
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are wrote:
re: the pricing, it doesn't look so bad if we hit 13-30 order volume, which would seem to be likely, no? Like anyone else, if given a choice I'd rather pay less than more, but since I generally use/ride/wear my equipment for its entire useable life, I'd rather spend a little more if the resulting kit was better.

Well, me too, I specially like the "team stretch jersey" fit, but to put things in perspective, a guy like me in Poortugal simply can not justify to the wife spending 244$ on a new cycling kit when you already have so many ones (and many of them pretty expensive). In this part of Europe you make, if you're educated, 1500$ a month with your job, assuming you have one in the first place :cry:

prendrefeu wrote:
Let me know your thoughts. I'm not tied to any vendor, but only sought a company that was able to provide logistics solutions without minimums.


Hey, don't mind me, I'm sure the quality is top notch and I really liked the idea of having a "team store", that is very cool and easy for everybody :beerchug:

That being said, of course it's not your problem that we make so little money :D and I hate being the the guy that has to bring the money issue up :oops: But to me personally the JVelo kit although it looks nice, also seams a little expensive for my pockets.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 6:24 pm 
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Location: tucson
I have never had issues with Champ Sys...until my current team kit. The jerseys are just coming apart. They fit well, but the durability is not where I would want it.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 3:29 am 
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Location: Los Angeles / Glendale, California
For those of you who may be watching this thread and thinking: oh no, it's going to fall apart just like the last thread did, don't worry, it won't.

A quick background about myself and why it won't: managing people/projects with various demands & requests is what I do. No, not the graphic designer/artist part of my career, but the leadership part. I am the President of a large non-profit org here in Los Angeles. Getting consensus between Board members, Staff, and sometimes members of the public on so many topics, with all their different perspectives and balancing the options, making executive decisions that are well thought out, balanced and ultimately successful is an absolute necessary thing (which is why I'm entering my 3rd year as President, 6th year as a Board member)... and I was doing something similar (another leadership position) with random groups of 100's of people every month for 3 years prior to all of this.

So don't worry, it won't fall apart.

--- Now, back to the Champion-Systems option:

Today on my ride I did some casual inquiry with those I rode with, and I will continue to do some more first-hand inquiry to get feedback on Champion System's products, particularly their latest lines and production qualities and ordering process. I will also inquire directly with ChampSys on Monday to dig into their logistics capabilities. I do want to hear from others here, if possible, Positive or Negative - if it really matters to you. More importantly: if we DO go to Champion Systems, I believe we may get more orders (namely because of the pricing), however if it is an absolute deal breaker for you and you won't order if we switch to Champion Systems, please let me know via PM. I'm fairly responsive.

I will take everything into consideration so we can end up with the best possible situation balancing the factors at hand.

Thank you everyone!

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 7:56 am 
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I have no opinion on Champion System (but cost will influence if I purchase or not), just adding info: http://cyclingtips.com.au/2013/06/a-factory-tour-and-more-behind-the-scenes-with-champion-system/


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 2:03 pm 
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Pren- have you been able to asses the quality of the JLVelo stuff ?


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 2:40 pm 
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wow, i'm certainly interested :thumbup:

i think you/we need to agree whether this is ment to be a high-end, drilled-ax-seatpost-like stuff or just a cool kit to ride in. 300$ probably doesn't seem much for people riding 10k bikes, (especially those who earn in US currency) but let's face it - there are more price-conscious members here than it may appear.

for what it's worth, i find it really hard to buy $hitty clothes these days, although i can ride in pretty much anything that fits - whether it's a 10$ decathlon jersey or a pro nike stuff 'collected' from the tdf backstage - i can hardly feel any difference 8)

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 3:03 pm 
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Location: Russia, Moscow
The jersey we ordered in 2009 was $90, and I don't remember cycling clothing prices going down in the last 3 years. So, if this time we are going with a cheap jersey with questionable fit and durability, then I'm probably out.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 7:57 am 
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bricky21 wrote:
Pren- have you been able to asses the quality of the JLVelo stuff ?


Yes, but only through riding with a few people who wear it (and asking them a bunch of questions). It appears to be high quality clothes, and customer service was a resounding highlight from them. That said, I would probably rank them in the upper tiers along with Capo or Castelli in terms of price & quality, even though they are a much smaller company.

It is very interesting to note that pretty much every vendor out there, with very few exceptions, have mixed reviews. Some people love certain vendors, others hate those same vendors. Fitting can be weird, quality issues, etc:. Even with reading online reviews it is never clear what level of clothes were ordered nor if things have improved over the years. The only exceptions to this are the very expensive lines from Castelli, Capo, and so forth... and even those have the occasional nitpick about sizing.

For ChampionSystems, I have seen a trend: any past experiences were pretty bad, but all of the newer stuff (especially their upper lines, which we would be going with if we go that route) are receiving generally positive reviews.

tymon_tm wrote:
i think you/we need to agree whether this is ment to be a high-end, drilled-ax-seatpost-like stuff or just a cool kit to ride in. 300$ probably doesn't seem much for people riding 10k bikes, (especially those who earn in US currency) but let's face it - there are more price-conscious members here than it may appear.


And I think that's a very important thing to consider. This is a very international forum (which is probably one of its greatest attributes), there is not only a huge range of capital levels - we have people who build up a special edition wide-tire-ready Cervelo and throw on Lightweights on it like it's nothing to people from countries recovering from years of war and an unstable economy just building up frames with whatever they can - but we do all share a love for this sport/endeavor and want to show it somehow.

I've also taken a look at my own closet of kits: only speaking for myself, I have "nice" or "high end" kits from 3 different teams that I rotate through depending on the ride and a few misc kits. For others who may not be affiliated with a club, they may have set of high end Rapha, Castelli, Assos or other high-end non-sponsored kits that they ride in most often. The WW kit would end up being the occasional jersey, and while it isn't out of the question, it is most likely not going to be the every-day set for the majority of people. It still has to be great and hold up well to a season's worth of riding of course, but it needs to land in a balance between high-enough quality and affordability.

As I write this (and wait the last few minutes to see if anyone else e-mails me their designs), only one person has declared themselves "out" if we go with Champion Systems. So this is my plan for tomorrow morning:

The survey will go up, everyone can vote, we can collect some data on this.
I'll be giving ChampSys a call to talk to a rep and see how things lay out.

In regards to sizing: ideally, what I want to do is to be able to provide everyone here with exact measurements (in cm or mm) of each size jersey & shorts and this is only possible if I can get a sizing kit in my hands and use my tape measures. JLVelo is obviously local, maybe Champion Systems has a representative local as well. Sizing tables are somewhat useful but don't provide really accurate information about the length of armpit-to-armpit, circumference of arms, length of sleeve, and length of front panel vs. back and so forth.

I want to make sure everyone has as much information as possible to ensure they order the size that will fit them best.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 8:04 am 
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Location: Stockholm, The Arctic...
Super!

Can we have the sizes both in inches and cm? ;)


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 8:05 am 
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Yes, that shouldn't be too difficult! As long as I can my hands on the actual samples.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 8:55 am 
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You're the KING !

:thumbup:


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 3:30 pm 
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I think it would be cool if the kit stood out from all the jerseys you see every day. Maybe along the lines of the 2011 France Football team away jersey:
Image
Admittedly, it might be a bit "out there" for some.

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Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 3:30 pm 


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 4:25 pm 
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Or this....

Image

I'd pay top dollar for one that looked like those! But I have ABSOLUTELY ZERO design skills or technical knowledge to produce a base design

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