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PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 12:54 am 
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I think the point trying to be made is they use a similar profile to the latest aero wheels, so it is safe to assume that the flo rims will be more aero than an older V profile.

I agree that you can't assume they will have the SAME aero as the Bonty rims etc, but that they will be trending towards that sort of performance and better than say a set of kinlin 30s.

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Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 12:54 am 


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 5:42 pm 
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Location: Las Vegas, NV
Zigmeister wrote:
The wheels are about one metric ton. 710g Front, 875g Rear.

For a 30mm clincher, that is kind of on the overweight side. Wait, this is weight weenies, let me rephrase, these 30mm wheels are obese beyond belief.

Considering I just built a set of 40mm aero/wide chinese set that came in at 1400g, makes you wonder.

Maybe they are bomb proof, don't know. I appreciate these guys putting time/money to develop their own wheel to call their own, and wish them success.

But the manufacturing process and weight need serious addressing IMO to make these a more competitive option, at least around weenie ville.


Would you mind sharing the specs of your wheels? You're calling our wheels obese beyond belief... are we comparing apples to apples?

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 9:37 pm 
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Your rims are aluminum. My build is carbon.

Your rim is 30mm, my Chinese is 40mm.

HongFu aero toroidal shape is 27mm widest, 25mm brake track.

Rear weight of 40mm Rim, 473g. Front 468g.

My hubs are Alchemy ORC UL Rear, ELF Front.

Sapim CXRays, alloy nipples.

1404g total weight front/rear.

So it is not an apples to apples obviously. The only thing similar is the spokes. Otherwise, you are using some Bitex/Chosen/Novatec hub laser etched with your logo likely.

I know the rims are all aluminum, but 1585g for the set is a bit heavy IMO.

You don't have anything closer to that depth, next depth is 60mm, and that is 1900gms of weight...ouch.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 11:29 pm 
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Your hubs cost more than their whole wheelset! Another plus for the Flo's is the aluminum brake track. I like brakes coming down the mountains.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 6:55 am 
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To be fair: 1585g isn't terribly light, nor terribly heavy.

The ol' fabled Kysriums, whether you love them or hate them, had a range of weights. Their SL's were in the 1400's (I believe), yet their Team/Equipe versions were around 1550g? These are all off the top of my head.

The cheap-o aluminum wheels on my commuter has the front wheel weighing in at over 1100g :shock: and the rear at over 1300g. Yes, that's each wheel.

I do see Zigmeister's point about things, and I do agree that I would have liked to see the Flo30s at least slightly lighter (which is why I asked, long ago, if they would be available as 'rim only' so I could build them up lighter myself, and Canadian answered a succinct "no"). However, that being said, we are comparing two different types of apples here: one of them is a Fuji apple, the other is a Granny Smith. Both are great Apples. You don't put a Fuji in a pie, and you don't put a Granny Smith in someone's lunch bag. The point being, they're different, they have specific markets they are appealing to. Pun intended.

Some people, such as 'bombertodd' and a friend of mine who is not a good descender (I would rate him near 'needs patience'), need an aluminum brake track. Others, such as myself, really don't at all. Rain or shine. And I pretty much spend almost all of my riding time climbing/descending. People are different. Some people need that aluminum brake track. Some really don't. (I'm actually considering ditching the rear brake, that's how little I use my brakes)

So in that aspect, the Flo30's are good at what they do, and the price is nice. They are aero, the weight is consumable by the average cyclist (Zigmeister: WW are a small, small, niche in the cycling world), and the price is not too shabby.

For those that seek a little bit more, and are willing to take the risks to venture out into new territories, there are direct suppliers available.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 7:14 am 
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If I was lighter I would get carbon clinchers. My wife doesn't have an issues slowing down into corners, but I had to squeeze both levers way to tight. I noticed you're from LA Prendrefeu. I live in Socal too, and ride a lot up towards Crestline and Silverwood. The descents around crestline require a strong brake. 8-16% downhill grade with sharp turns and being a clyde is tough!

I rode again today with my friend who go Flo 30's. He loves them so far (about 80 miles on them). The hub is louder than most hubs, but not the loudest (I think it sounds perfect). The wheels still look really good and my friend is really happy. I think the value in these wheels is great. I personally haven't seen a set of under $500 pre-built wheels that I would pick over these.

Canadian, I too would be interested in a rim only option.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 11:03 am 
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You make more $$ out of a sale of a set of wheels than you do out of selling a set of rims. So If you can sell everything you make why would you make less profitable sales with your available stock?

So Americans love to sue somebody when they do something stupid. "hey I'm 120 kg but I'd love some flo rims with 16 spokes on the front because I'll go so much faster down that big bumpy hill". Selling a full wheel means you at least have something where you can control all the quality. And they offer a "Clyde" wheel set. If somebody buys the lighter set then claims they weren't strong enough and they weren't warned, Flo just says - "you should have bought the Clyde wheels - not our fault"

An option I'd consider is to only sell rims to good wheel builders with the instruction they are only to sell rims as part of wheels. Then the builder takes responcibility for the fit for purpose build with each customer. But then you have an extra set of hands wanting to make some profit.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 11:06 am 
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Location: Melbourne, Australia
Oh yeah -

Aero
Light
Cheap

Choose any 2

There are plenty of $500 prebuild wheels out there which aren't as aero and a lot heavier.

Yeah you can get some Chinese CF rims pretty cheap now - but then as pointed out they don't have the braking performance and you'd have to question the quality and serivce.

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Last edited by Phill P on Tue Aug 13, 2013 3:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 12:25 am 
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Zigmeister wrote:
Your rims are aluminum. My build is carbon.

Your rim is 30mm, my Chinese is 40mm.

HongFu aero toroidal shape is 27mm widest, 25mm brake track.

Rear weight of 40mm Rim, 473g. Front 468g.

My hubs are Alchemy ORC UL Rear, ELF Front.

Sapim CXRays, alloy nipples.

1404g total weight front/rear.

So it is not an apples to apples obviously. The only thing similar is the spokes. Otherwise, you are using some Bitex/Chosen/Novatec hub laser etched with your logo likely.

I know the rims are all aluminum, but 1585g for the set is a bit heavy IMO.

You don't have anything closer to that depth, next depth is 60mm, and that is 1900gms of weight...ouch.


Ok, so as you mentioned, you were comparing a carbon rim to an aluminum rim which isn't quite fair. That at least helps me understand the difference in weight a little more.

I think another point to consider is that our rims are considerably wider than many previous aluminum rims on the market and likely your carbon rims. Our rims have an average width of about 25mm. Many others are only 19mm wide. Considering you are adding 30+% to the wide of your rim, the weight obviously has to go up due to the increase in material. As a company we decided to do this for aerodynamics and ride performance. Our research has shown that improvements in aerodynamics can outweigh a few grams of weight.

I know, I know.... Saying weight isn't the MOST important thing in WW-ville isn't kosher, but I'm just trying to help you understand our design choices. I fully respect that different variables (aerodynamic, weight, etc) are more important for the individual and support peoples choices.

I hope that makes sense.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 4:47 pm 
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bombertodd wrote:
Your hubs cost more than their whole wheelset! Another plus for the Flo's is the aluminum brake track. I like brakes coming down the mountains.



Braking on carbon wheels that the issues of heat aren't proven. I think all the pros running carbon wheels in the biggest races in the world with mountainous terrain is proof of that.

That being said, aluminum has proven itself as a reliable braking surface...so if you drag your brakes and take 20% grades all the time, maybe that is an option/choice.

To each his own...but 1585gms, for the money. If the Flo's run $600-800 for the pair, hey, that isn't bad. There isn't any real pricing for the set on the site right now. But for the money, would be a good all around beater wheel for sure with some good aero properties, good braking and pretty much bomb proof.

I know my hubs cost more than their wheelset, you get what you pay for. Lighter hub, stiffer wheel. Rims cost $475, the rest is in the hubs/spokes and build.

I agree also that these are comparable to the Mavic typical box aluminum rim. A lot of people still run those, even race on them. You get a similar wheel with Flo, good price, some aero properties...not a bad option.

Not knocking these guys...but this is weight weenies...1585gms for a aluminum rim, not cutting it today.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 7:09 pm 
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Zigmeister wrote:
bombertodd wrote:
Your hubs cost more than their whole wheelset! Another plus for the Flo's is the aluminum brake track. I like brakes coming down the mountains.



Braking on carbon wheels that the issues of heat aren't proven. I think all the pros running carbon wheels in the biggest races in the world with mountainous terrain is proof of that.

That being said, aluminum has proven itself as a reliable braking surface...so if you drag your brakes and take 20% grades all the time, maybe that is an option/choice.

To each his own...but 1585gms, for the money. If the Flo's run $600-800 for the pair, hey, that isn't bad. There isn't any real pricing for the set on the site right now.

I'm not sure why you say there isn't any "real" pricing on the website. It's on the shop pages. The set is $498. Front wheels are $224 and rear wheels are $274. Ceramic bearings are an upgrade of $100 per wheel.

But for the money, would be a good all around beater wheel for sure with some good aero properties, good braking and pretty much bomb proof.

I know my hubs cost more than their wheelset, you get what you pay for. Lighter hub, stiffer wheel. Rims cost $475, the rest is in the hubs/spokes and build.

I agree also that these are comparable to the Mavic typical box aluminum rim. A lot of people still run those, even race on them. You get a similar wheel with Flo, good price, some aero properties...not a bad option.

Not knocking these guys...but this is weight weenies...1585gms for a aluminum rim, not cutting it today.

I'm not sure what aluminum wheels you are comparing these too, but I'm not sure you are comparing apples to apples. If you are comparing these to a shallow/narrow aluminum clincher, it's not a direct comparison.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 8:25 pm 
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Zigmeister wrote:
Braking on carbon wheels that the issues of heat aren't proven. I think all the pros running carbon wheels in the biggest races in the world with mountainous terrain is proof of that.


http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/article/a ... afe-34521/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/gforum.cgi? ... ransition;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://velonews.competitor.com/2013/03/ ... her_277711" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://velonews.competitor.com/2013/03/ ... her_277775" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://velonews.competitor.com/2013/04/ ... ers_284201" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Don't forget how much pro's weigh compared to the general cycling public. I race downhill mountain bikes, so I would consider my bike skills (descending) to be better than the average rider. Yet at my weight, and I don't brake unless required, I would not trust carbon clinchers. A large amount of the general public is in the same boat of weighing more than pro riders, using more brakes, or both. If I lived somewhere flatter I would entertain the thought of carbon clinchers. Until then I'll stick with aluminum.

Quote:

To each his own...but 1585gms, for the money. If the Flo's run $600-800 for the pair, hey, that isn't bad. There isn't any real pricing for the set on the site right now. But for the money, would be a good all around beater wheel for sure with some good aero properties, good braking and pretty much bomb proof.


The Flo 30's cost my friend $495.

Quote:
I agree also that these are comparable to the Mavic typical box aluminum rim. A lot of people still run those, even race on them. You get a similar wheel with Flo, good price, some aero properties...not a bad option.


I can't find an aluminum box rim from Mavic that is aero and wide. I have no clue what rim you are talking about.


Quote:
Not knocking these guys...but this is weight weenies...1585gms for a aluminum rim, not cutting it today.


What would you buy pre-built for under $500, that is wide, aero, and has aluminum braking?


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 4:42 pm 
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How does the black anodized break surface hold? Does it ware off fast ? If you live in a dry mediterrenean environment ...


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 5:04 pm 
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Kupepe wrote:
How does the black anodized break surface hold? Does it ware off fast ? If you live in a dry mediterrenean environment ...



My friend has over 400 miles on his wheels and they are still black and look great. We live in a desert.


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Posted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 5:04 pm 


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 5:20 pm 
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Location: Canada
It's not the climate that wille make the surface dissappear, it's the braking. So I imsagine you don't use the brakes ever in a desert.
But if you ride mountains a lot, the brake surface will wear off faster...

Louis :)


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