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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 10:01 am 
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It strikes me that teams looking for contract extensions or new partners every year is a very amateurish way to operate. Multi year tie ins are surely needed to ensure stability and to allow the sort of investment and planning that would enable an outfit to take the challenge to the likes of Sky.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 10:04 am 
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Tinkoff is a bit of a loose canon based on his Twitter outbursts during the Tour. Riis is better off without him, provided of course that he can obtain sponsorship.


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Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 10:04 am 


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 10:08 am 
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KWalker wrote:
Yesterday I was riding up a climb in Santa Barbara with a friend. We came across an older guy with no helmet riding with a small child that was on a Scott road bike killing it up this climb (maybe 5 or 6 years old). The man had a thick accent (French or Belgian). Upon closer inspection he was on the Rca with 9070. Said rider claimed to be a former pro for Cofidis and said he owns a bike factory (we think he said in France) that produced 1.5 million bikes last year.

Does anyone know who this guy could be?

I think Time is the only factory in France making a decent amount of performance bikes, but not 1.5 Millions.

Larger manufacturers like Decathlon may produce 1.5 M bikes but that's city or recreationnal bikes and I wonder how many are really made in France (rather Eastern Europe).

No idea who this guy can be, former French pros are not that rich to own a factory, rather a bar-restaurant ...


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 10:10 am 
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airwise wrote:
It strikes me that teams looking for contract extensions or new partners every year is a very amateurish way to operate.


- I really doubt they do it through preference, at the end of the day it is a business and they need to take sponsorship that is available. Cycling manufacturers coming on board as team sponsors is a good thing, they are willing to commit for the long term and are in the sport for all the right reasons. Too often it is quite obvious that certain cycling sponsors are only in the game due to senior personnel being cycling fans.

- Interesting insight into both Riis and the whole sponsorship thing on Gerard Vroomen's blog here -> http://gerard.cc/2013/07/12/riis-pieces/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 10:25 am 
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Just see Vroomen trying to distance himself from the events at CSC there - standard corporate press release stuff.

I think Riis really should be made to sell the World Tour Licence should there be a change of leadership direction at the UCI come September. The sport does not need his kind as it goes forward and to be honest, running a team on a year by year basis is never going to give the sport the stability it needs.

I agree that the re-emergence of the manufacturers' teams is a good thing for the sport's future. Now it depends on both the investment they are willing to make, and the financial setup of any new race series going forward. Right now, cycling is a pathetically amateurish sport in the main - just one reason that Sky have been able to come in and dominate to the degree that they have.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 10:37 am 
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pastronef wrote:
cambrook wrote:
the 39-year-old O'Grady was named by a French senate inquiry as one of 83 athletes to have returned positive or, in his case, "suspicious" blood readings from the 1998 Tour after having samples re-tested by the anti-doping authorities.


I think he should have waited a few days more, he's on the list of the "suspicious". He should have waited, and see how the situation would develop


Suspicious means they tested positive to 1. Visual Autoradiography method and positive for 2. Isotope Method but not to the determined 85% level that would have put the rider in the 'Positive' category of the report.

O'Grady was at 65% or thereabouts. He was well beyond suspicion in lay mans terms. That's why he folded. And lied again.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 10:42 am 
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airwise wrote:
Just see Vroomen trying to distance himself from the events at CSC there - standard corporate press release stuff.

I think Riis really should be made to sell the World Tour Licence should there be a change of leadership direction at the UCI come September. The sport does not need his kind as it goes forward and to be honest, running a team on a year by year basis is never going to give the sport the stability it needs.

I agree that the re-emergence of the manufacturers' teams is a good thing for the sport's future. Now it depends on both the investment they are willing to make, and the financial setup of any new race series going forward. Right now, cycling is a pathetically amateurish sport in the main - just one reason that Sky have been able to come in and dominate to the degree that they have.



Plenty of others to add besides Riis. Not sure why you are focusing just on him. Vaughters. Ochowicz. Just two other names you failed to mention out of the many.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 10:47 am 
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airwise wrote:
Just see Vroomen trying to distance himself from the events at CSC there - standard corporate press release stuff.


- I very much doubt Vroomen feels any need to distance himself from CSC, given he is no longer a share holder or CEO of Cervélo. His blog is actually quite a good and interesting view of cycling. Then again he innovated aero bike frames and CSC used his bikes so he must be incorrect and irrelevant. I apologise.

airwise wrote:
I think Riis really should be made to sell the World Tour Licence should there be a change of leadership direction at the UCI come September. The sport does not need his kind as it goes forward and to be honest, running a team on a year by year basis is never going to give the sport the stability it needs.


- So the UCI should have a moral code in charge of who runs teams? Should Astana no longer be granted a licence due to Vino, what about Garmin with Vaughters and Millar, BMC with Rihs of Phonak fame?

- Running a team on a year by year basis not good for stability.... what should the teams do then, shut down? Should Bob Stapleton not have created High Road from the ashes of T-Mobile, should Blanco not have carried on after Rabobank. A lot of the time this sport exists due to the passion of those involved at all levels. Competitive sponsored sport exists in a pressured world financial market. The same is true of other sports, look at F1 for example. Whilst it would be nice if we had 19 other global broadcasting multinationals with questionable morals bankrolling teams, it isn't going to happen in the near term.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 11:07 am 
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I think every team director would love to have a sponsor that would give them stability for more than one year. But given the economic circumstances, not everyone is so fortunate. Riis's biggest problem is that what he really wants is a danish sponsor, but it's going to be difficult to find a company that will put 6 mio Euros into that team. Not that there isn't companies that could do so, but they're obviously not interested in supporting cycling.

I think it's because Danes are quite focused on the doping history. Even if Riis was to sell his team, and let it be taken over by some other Dane, sponsors would still be afraid that another doping scandal might come. It's a bit like Germany, where there's really no sponsor that's up for the task of having a german team like Milram, Gerolsteiner or T-Mobile.

Hopefully Riis will be able to find a co-sponsor for 2014. I just read that Saxo Bank is offering to help to find a new sponsor through their network.

And interesting to see that it was Riis that stopped the negotiations with Tinkov, not the other way around.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 11:19 am 
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maquisard wrote:
- I very much doubt Vroomen feels any need to distance himself from CSC, given he is no longer a share holder or CEO of Cervélo. His blog is actually quite a good and interesting view of cycling. Then again he innovated aero bike frames and CSC used his bikes so he must be incorrect and irrelevant. I apologise.


I'm sure his blog is of interest to Cervelo owners the world over Allen. I just don't think it's giving me personally any useful insight in the link you posted. Why should I believe him and not Brailsford?

Aero bike frames? Read Burrows opinions in Cyclist this month for my take on that ;)

Quote:
- So the UCI should have a moral code in charge of who runs teams? Should Astana no longer be granted a licence due to Vino, what about Garmin with Vaughters and Millar, BMC with Rihs of Phonak fame?


They should certainly put considerable conditions on teams that preclude people like Riis continuing with his policies. Like allowing unfettered access to blood and power controls through a team of experts for starters. I also think life bans for all convicted dopers is a long overdue penalty that will both discourage further abuse and make sure this situation does not happen in future. Life sentences would have removed those you mention from the World Tour - would the sport be any worse off for it?

Quote:
- Running a team on a year by year basis not good for stability.... what should the teams do then, shut down? Should Bob Stapleton not have created High Road from the ashes of T-Mobile, should Blanco not have carried on after Rabobank. A lot of the time this sport exists due to the passion of those involved at all levels. Competitive sponsored sport exists in a pressured world financial market. The same is true of other sports, look at F1 for example. Whilst it would be nice if we had 19 other global broadcasting multinationals with questionable morals bankrolling teams, it isn't going to happen in the near term.


Indeed cycling does need to look long and hard at both the F1 model, and those of other sports like Football. A share of the TV revenue going to licence holders is just one step on the road to stability. Multi year contracts with extension deadlines will follow whilst some degree of future planning can be accomplished through guaranteed annual revenue. As I say, the sport really is in the dark ages.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 11:29 am 
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airwise wrote:
Just see Vroomen trying to distance himself from the events at CSC there - standard corporate press release stuff.



mmm, more or less

I think Vroomen leaving Cervelo has been partially due to his view on doping issues, while the team he sponsored did not care much about that. He's become a bit pissed, and he left Cervelo (ok, there are economical reasons behind that too, I am not dreaming)


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 11:53 am 
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No wonder it took so long for a EPO test to be used. They were getting so many darn positives they must have thought they were false-positives and something faulty with testing protocol. If only.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 11:59 am 
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Vroomen actually replied to the blog when questioned on some of your points. Available if you read the article.

1) Only people with a bad grasp of history would think CSC launched our brand into the stratosphere. Our fastest growth was prior to sponsoring CSC. In fact, growth in year 1 of our CSC sponsorship was zero, that’s how well it worked back then. It grew after that though, that’s definitely true.
2) Maybe you’re reading different things into this post that I wrote into it. Doesn’t appear to be that bad a post for Riis.
3) Even so, what does it matter? Is this your paid version of the omerta? If somebody makes you money, you can never say anything bad about them? Yeah, that’s what we want, riders who will never speak out about their team managers because they were paid by them. Nice one.
4) The “making money” bit is pretty relative, we lost more on two years of CTT than we ever made during six years of CSC. Which is quite OK, business is a sport for grown-ups and we make our own decisions.


The reply hints at the reason Vroomen left Cervélo. The Test Team lost the company a lot of money and it was primarily his idea. I personally have a lot of respect for the guy as he is an engineer at heart, interested in new ideas and not just a salesman peddling the same old nonsense like others.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 12:36 pm 
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The Secret Pro new blog

http://cyclingtips.com.au/2013/07/the-s ... e-edition/

"For you Australians, I see that Stuart O’Grady’s results from the 1998 Tour...."

so he is NOT Australian?


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 1:09 pm 
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^ Interesting read!
Quote:
there are a lot of guys in the peloton who aren’t the riders they used to be only a few years ago
Quote:
some of the other riders who aren’t smashing the field like they used to.

Have to agree with him 100% on this point. Guess he's talking about Andy Schleck and/or Alberto Contador. Contador was climbing way bellow his previous level. Guess when Contador said that he was 90% of his best coming into the tour he meant 90% of his doped best. As for Andy an ancient broken hip injury aint excuse for everything. Neither is the missing brother factor. Since when does having your brother ride along side you help you climb better?
As for:
Quote:
when some unnamed French team who had some issues in the Dauphine takes the piss out of the rest of the peloton in previous years then is back to normal this Tour and riding with a little less panache, we have to ask the question.

Guess he is refering to Europcar and Thommy V, correct? Agreed as well! He was completely invisible at this tour with the press giving zero importance to that.

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Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 1:09 pm 


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