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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 10:40 pm 
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ricerocket wrote:
I'd be interested to hear the radio comms from Sky, I'd bet on it being like "slow down, we can't pull a minute gap on Contador, it would raise suspicion". Eeking out a win by a few seconds while going last seems all too coincidental.

Am I being too cynical?


Yes.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 10:43 pm 
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MikeyT wrote:
Swings and roundabouts. Had Contador had switched bikes it could have been a completely different result. Love or hate Sky you have to agree they couldn't have planned that TT any better.


But Contador had a Venge, which is already an aerodynamic frame, while Froome's mass-start frame is a less aerodynamic Pinarello.

Contador lost time from the time split, but Froome lost time going into that time split, and it's unclear the speed improvement Venge-Spiz would have been worth the time lost to swap.

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Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 10:43 pm 


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 Post subject: "PRO" Cycling Discussion
PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 11:36 pm 
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The way Bertie has been looking on his Shiv it isn't a wonder why he didn't switch....he would have lost more time!

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 11:56 pm 
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https://twitter.com/peterstetina/status/357622559652581377

AMEN!


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 Post subject: "PRO" Cycling Discussion
PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:41 am 
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No longer watching now...Tour De Boring...

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:31 am 
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I'm thinking Froome (Sky) calculated this ride, not going 100%.
Well, anyway, it can be proven. VAMs and power can be estimated from the splits, I'm sure.

The main point is that Froome was slower going uphill than Contador and about as fast as Rodriguez, right?
On previous climbs these two were nowhere near what Froome can do.

This is getting ridiculous. On the next three stages Froome might even concede some time to sell us the idea of him being human.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 2:21 am 
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ave wrote:
On the next three stages Froome might even concede some time to sell us the idea of him being human.


Genius logic... So he's damned if he wins or loses! Lets bind him and drop him a lake. If he floats he's a witch and we can burn him and be done with this..

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 2:51 am 
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Can you really blame a fan base for their skepticism after they've been burned for so many years? Really?
Things were already bad enough prior to 2012, with a waterfall of former greats falling down in disgrace. Years of stage winners and GT winners such as Ricco and DiLuca doping with an air about them that surfaced as pompous but ultimately pointed to a serious, and tragic, addiction in disturbed psyches. Years of fallout from Operation Puerto and other drug-related stings. Then came the US Postal revelations - which stretched even beyond Armstrong himself, even though he was the focal point. The knife cutting that final bit of skin was implicit involvement with the UCI.
That was just last year.

It's now barely a year since the last major saga that we've been through and we're seeing things that - objectively speaking - are reminiscent of past performances, both individually and with a team. With the team in question, the same patterns of action and public relations are all too familiar.

So, even if you believe this is not history repeating itself, objectively speaking this is uncannily reminiscent of an all-too-familiar past. Even if you believe that everything is clean, how can you blame your fellow cycling fan for being skeptical, apprehensive, or reticent to accept the reality that you want to believe?

If they are skeptical, that's fine. If they don't believe the "clean reality" that you see, that's fine. They have every right to be skeptical and question things, just as any person can - but especially after having been burned for years.

In time we will know the truth of the matter - in either direction - but please, let's have some respect for both sides of an opinion here. It is justified.
Thanks.

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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 5:14 am 
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Wingnut wrote:
No longer watching now...Tour De Boring...


Find another sport to watch.

There's so much sad cynicism and rubbish on this thread that it makes me wonder why some even follow the sport. It's the same every year - former Armstrong fans feeling let down.

No one takes any note of any common sense - truly pathetic.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 5:18 am 
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prendrefeu wrote:
In time we will know the truth of the matter - in either direction - but please, let's have some respect for both sides of an opinion here. It is justified.
Thanks.


No it's not justified - people are comparing apples with oranges and ignoring facts that happen to blunt their swords. It's cynical biased views with an agenda. It's like saying it's OK to be racist because your parents and grandparents were.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 6:31 am 
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airwise wrote:
prendrefeu wrote:
In time we will know the truth of the matter - in either direction - but please, let's have some respect for both sides of an opinion here. It is justified.
Thanks.


No it's not justified - people are comparing apples with oranges and ignoring facts that happen to blunt their swords. It's cynical biased views with an agenda. It's like saying it's OK to be racist because your parents and grandparents were.
Really? The evidence for cycling having a deeply rooted doping problem that has yet to be properly tackled is legion. How can that be compared to inherited bigotry? :noidea:


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 6:38 am 
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All the gossip and speculation is part of the fun! I have to agree (mostly) with Wingnut and disagree with Phil Liggett - I'm just not that excited by the race for second. But I am excited about the USA Pro Challenge. Stage 6 goes right by my house! Got my stuffed pig and mankini ready to go.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:03 am 
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"One thing I never thought I'd see, Joaquim Rodriguez almost winning a time trial. Chris Froome winning from Contador is no surprise but Purito chasing them hard, now that's worth noting. He and Katusha could well hold the cards to how the final stages play out. "

From R. Millar's blog today on cyclingnews....have to say, I fancy Purito for today's stage. Froome will let him go up the road, and he seems back on form.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/blogs/robert ... -the-chase

I love to read someone who bloody understands cycle racing....


Last edited by ultyguy on Thu Jul 18, 2013 9:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:20 am 
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The Tour isn't won before they hit the line in Paris. Although it seems that Froome has this in the bag, let's not forget the history that we dearly hold on to when we're saying that Froome is doping.

1998 - Ullrich lost almost 9 minutes on one stage.
2006 - Landis and his breakdown on Stage 16 cost him 10 minutes

And there's probably a lot more. I know that these are years of massive doping, but never the less, it was a rider who broke down.

Could be very interesting to see what Team Saxo could do with constant attacks from Kreuziger and Contador, as well as Quintana and Rodriquez.

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Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:20 am 


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:38 am 
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I'm with prendrefeu on this. The doubters may not be right, but they have every right to be doubters (and sure, you can replace doubters by believers and I'll endorse that too).

My subjective take: humans respond to incentives. And the incentives still overwhelmingly favor doping if you are a 20 year old whose ticket to a good life is an ability to pedal a bike fast. Detection methods lack sensitivity, and you can make it throughg years of racing and winning without being caught, especially if you have decent medical supervision. And if you get caught, well, you still had a good run - eg, despite last year's scandal, the US postal team members still come out ahead imo. Even di Luca has a monument to his likeness atop the colle delle Finestre to commemorate his crossing in 1st position in 2005 (he did not even win the stage). Unless the incentive structure changes (eg better detection, harsher consequences, or both) I don't see why the behaviors would change. But as with any general rule, there are exceptions, so here is to hoping that we are seeing one now.


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