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 Post subject: Re: Weights
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:36 pm 
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Tapeworm wrote:
I was sure someone would have said "don't go to parallel" or other rubbish.


That's limbo, not squats.

:D

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 Post subject: Re: Weights
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:33 pm 
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Due to time constraints preventing trips to the gym for full weight training I have begun using a TRX when I am limited to staying home (or traveling). I know its the latest and greatest fad, but I love the variety that I can get from one basic tool, and I have worked with a trainer who has given me some creative workout regimines to go along with it.


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 Post subject: Re: Weights
Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:33 pm 


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 Post subject: Re: Weights
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 8:59 pm 
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Tapeworm wrote:
Props to all whom have commented on the squats, I was sure someone would have said "don't go to parallel" or other rubbish.

@Illuminate, any research you are immediately aware of regarding a focus on the concentric phase and how this relates to the application of power? Like starting the squat from a low rack position?

I have discussed this with a few people as to the potential benefits in terms of it application to cycling especially given the lack of eccentric in a normal pedalling, especially on something like a standing start. Most think that it would be good as an assistance or programmed into a more "power" phase. Thoughts?


You're basically talking about squatting like a deadlift (the "dead" part literally referrring to starting from a point of 0 momentum). I've done this for bench press as a strength building routine for 6-8 weeks HEAVY with no other chest exercises. I definitely saw an improvement in my peak strength in my chest... but I did it more just to see the benefit - I don't really see a purpose in life for a 300+ bench press unless you're a football lineman.

Yes, I realize this contribution is of NO use or relevance to cycling ;)

Being a long time gym rat and a newbie to cycling - I'd imagine the method you're inquiring about could aid sprinting and possibly climbing efforts - though how much help to the latter would depend on your lactic threshold.


Changing gears a bit just to speak on the general topic of the thread; lifting weights is my first addiction/hobby and it's been a constant through several other physical hobbies. As I get more and more into cycling I've accepted that I'll lose a bit of strength in the gym and that the way I like to lift will likely be more of a hinderance than an aid to my cycling efforts. But so be it. These are two things I love to do so they'll just have to learn to get along... and hopefully not kill me :|
Overall I'm pretty pleased reading through this thread. There are many varying opinions, some I agree and disagree with, but most are offering pretty good support for their arguments. Good on ya :)


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 Post subject: Re: Weights
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 9:03 pm 
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MattSoutherden wrote:
Tapeworm wrote:
I was sure someone would have said "don't go to parallel" or other rubbish.


That's limbo, not squats.

:D


It's worth mentioning that "going to parallel" simply will not work very safely for some people due to physical composition. It's my opinion that one should go as deep as they can while keeping proper posture (especially in their lower back). "Parallel" is usually just a safe starting point.

I find my back to be a bit temperamental at times if I do a lot of reps below parallel no matter what weight I have on the bar. Though lately I've found no discomfort in making sure the last couple reps of each set are DEEP.


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 Post subject: Re: Weights
PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 1:56 am 
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Imaking20 wrote:
...I'd imagine the method you're inquiring about could aid sprinting and possibly climbing efforts - though how much help to the latter would depend on your lactic threshold....


My apologies, I should have been more specific, namely track sprinting and the kilo I was thinking of, hence the application of near maximal concentric contractions in training as this is what is utilised in actuality - albeit for ~1-10 pedal strokes.

Quote:
...I've accepted that I'll lose a bit of strength in the gym and that the way I like to lift will likely be more of a hinderance than an aid to my cycling efforts. But so be it. These are two things I love to do so they'll just have to learn to get along...


Take up track sprinting, then you can have your cake and eat it too. Literally! Sprinters still need to do the odd ride on outside - sates my "coffee ride" habit :thumb up:


And because some here may appreciate (and I have to brag somewhere) I hit 125kgs for a double on the weekend, 1.55 times bodyweight... yeah! Should be at 2x if all things go well.

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 Post subject: Re: Weights
PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 9:13 pm 
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Tapeworm wrote:
Imaking20 wrote:
...I'd imagine the method you're inquiring about could aid sprinting and possibly climbing efforts - though how much help to the latter would depend on your lactic threshold....


My apologies, I should have been more specific, namely track sprinting and the kilo I was thinking of, hence the application of near maximal concentric contractions in training as this is what is utilised in actuality - albeit for ~1-10 pedal strokes.

Quote:
...I've accepted that I'll lose a bit of strength in the gym and that the way I like to lift will likely be more of a hinderance than an aid to my cycling efforts. But so be it. These are two things I love to do so they'll just have to learn to get along...


Take up track sprinting, then you can have your cake and eat it too. Literally! Sprinters still need to do the odd ride on outside - sates my "coffee ride" habit :thumb up:


And because some here may appreciate (and I have to brag somewhere) I hit 125kgs for a double on the weekend, 1.55 times bodyweight... yeah! Should be at 2x if all things go well.


In regards to the dead-squat... try it! That's a pretty particular question to ask (and answer) and I doubt one would encounter many people trying it - and as always, results vary by person. I would think you'd want to be pretty careful though as there will be A LOT of strain on your lower back as you lift the bar off the rack from the bottom.

I'll look at what there is for track sprinting around here!

Good job on the squat! You're about my weight too - thanks for making me feel a little more normal :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: Weights
PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 9:27 am 
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Location: Melbourne,Australia
So if weight training doesn't aid cycling at all then why was there pictures last winter showing Basso doing squats on a hack slide machine, and Armstrong has plenty youtube vids showing him cranking out legs exercises, both these guys are top GC riders not a kilo or sprinter, and if Basso an Armstrong do some I'm sure they wouldnt be the only ones.

Surely it must aid in helping maintain some strength or adding strength in areas you lack.

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 Post subject: Re: Weights
PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 12:09 pm 
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There are lots of reasons for enduros to do weights. None of which have anything to do with aerobic power production. The snippets people see of pro X doing weights and think that this is a regular structured part of their training week is misleading. Maybe 3-4 weeks a SEASON. Once again, nothing to do with power and performance per se. And relative too, not exactly pushing 1x body weight here.

As for the hack squat... :shock: no worse machine out there.

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 Post subject: Re: Weights
PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 4:48 pm 
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Agreed! Hack squats are TERRIBLE for putting excess pressure on your knees and femurs!


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 Post subject: Re: Weights
PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 6:02 pm 
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I used to find hack squats worked very well, like any exercise they must be done with good form. Most of the pro cyclists will do weights in the off season, which seems to be getting shorter each year. Its going to get difficult for riders to try something new and see if they can improve.The demands of sponsors could see a lack of individual progress and racing becoming a bit predictable.


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 Post subject: Re: Weights
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 1:44 am 
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When it comes to the hack squat or smith machine (or any machine for that matter) form is irrelevant - the dynamics of the machines places stress on the body which give a greater prepensity for injury.

A correctly performed squat or Deadlift does not.

These exercises can still be done wrong but they can be corrected whereas there can be no such correction on a machine.

I don't understand the bit about "predictable racing" though. Very good pros don't really have an off-season, a reduction in racing perhaps, but the bike is never given up for long.

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 Post subject: Re: Weights
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 3:30 am 
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I would kindly disagree about no technique involved with machine lifts - especially machines with as much weight loaded up as leg exercises. Hack squats, for instance, are going to be even more unsafe if the person lets their hips come off the slide/seat or if they let their knees buckle in - both of which I've seen happen.

I don't think I've ever encouraged someone to hack squat. I leg press weekly though - this also requires some technique.


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 Post subject: Re: Weights
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 4:26 am 
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Not "no technique" just that even done 100% "correctly" there is still undue stress placed on the body in manner which it is not meant to be placed on the body.

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 Post subject: Re: Weights
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 5:13 am 
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You definitely won't get an argument from me on that one :thumbup:


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 Post subject: Re: Weights
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 5:42 pm 
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Quote:
Not "no technique" just that even done 100% "correctly" there is still undue stress placed on the body in manner which it is not meant to be placed on the body.

Like having 200 or so pounds supported by a steel rod resting across the back of your shoulders is a manner in which the body was meant to be stressed ?
:lol:

I am no lifting exprt, but I have done a lot of weight traing, and it seems like in every lift or machine therre is a balance between "doing it correctly" and not allowing form to get you ito a position where you may be injured, etc. Mostly it is controlling YOURSELF so you don't trying to lift weights you can't CONTROL.

It is probably easier to get running amok on a hack squat machine, etc, but that isn't really the machine's fault.


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 Post subject: Re: Weights
Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 5:42 pm 


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