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 Post subject: Weights
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 11:32 am 
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Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2011 1:00 pm
Posts: 87
I am wondering at what point in your career can you stop weight training because you wont get any further benefit. I know that your free time is better spent building FTP and any other training could take away from your ability to hit your target power in training. but at what point do you consider yourself reasonably trained? I have enought time to weight train on top of cycling.. maybe two or three days a week, just squats/leg sled. Weights would be after doing the hardest training days and after a rest day. I am 73kg and 320ftp.


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 Post subject: Re: Weights
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 12:20 pm 
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Define "career".

Most enduros (who actually know) don't do weights for the performance benefit. There are a while host of reasons why lifting is good for you as a human being. As an endurance cyclist, not so much. Maybe a bit of focus in the off season to keep things strong, maybe for variety, maybe just to look good. Some may need it for work/home life reasons (putting out your back lifting a pot plant can kill your race season apparently).

If your FTP is 320 there is no performance reason to be doing weights. If you're 60 years old and untrained, maybe.

If you are looking at more the sprint stuff, and I mean track sprinter here, there is a decent amount of reasons to be doing weights, but even then there is question about how much/what is actually necessary.

But if you are going to do weights, do them right. Squats are good if they are proper below parallel squats. And not in runners! Dead-lifts, cleans, snatch, maybe some leg sled stuff. Compound lifts. That's it. No "abs" or "biceps", no "core" work, and definitely no f***ing swiss balls or bosu-balls.

And I always have the caveat :- Just Don't Expect It to Help Your Cycling (JDEITHYC).

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"I'm not a real doctor; But I am a real worm; I am an actual worm." - TMBG


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 Post subject: Re: Weights
Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 12:20 pm 


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 Post subject: Re: Weights
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 1:05 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2011 1:00 pm
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True, I agree with you tape worm. Thanks for the post. I just wanted to confirm my thought. I used the term career liberaly.. I really dont have a career, just started training 2 years ago but I would like to make cycling a career. Hope its not too late at 24 :)


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 Post subject: Re: Weights
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 3:27 pm 
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Quote:
And I always have the caveat :- Just Don't Expect It to Help Your Cycling (JDEITHYC).

+1
Many years I have fallen victim to the illusion that weight training will help by giving more leg strength. But I always end up realizing that it just doesn't work. It might be good for general fitness and health; and it might be good exercise if you can't do anything else; but only heavy training on the bike actually helps cycling. :)

I still can't really relinquish the illusion though, so I lift in the winter when I can't get in as many road miles. Windtrainer miles are just too boring, so I throw in some weight training. But it doesn't really help the cycling.


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 Post subject: Re: Weights
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 4:28 pm 
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Location: Cincinnati, OH
feel like this is a good topic as i was wondering whether or not lifting would help me a lot in cycling. i play lacrosse and used to lift on a regular basis so not sure if i should just concentrate on riding harder when on the bike to get more power.

also, what is FTP?

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 Post subject: Re: Weights
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 4:48 pm 
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roberto21 wrote:
feel like this is a good topic as i was wondering whether or not lifting would help me a lot in cycling. i play lacrosse and used to lift on a regular basis so not sure if i should just concentrate on riding harder when on the bike to get more power.

also, what is FTP?


Functional Threashold Power - max power you can sustain for a 1 hour effort


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 Post subject: Re: Weights
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 6:57 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2012 6:26 pm
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Location: Cincinnati, OH
ok thanks. guess i never knew because i dont have a power meter to train with yet.

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pedal damn it.

My Bikes:
2012 Scott Foil 20 -- 7.31 kg
2013 Felt F3X -- 8.71 kg
1988 Cannondale Road Bike -- heavy commuter


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 Post subject: Re: Weights
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 7:27 pm 
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Location: Los Angeles / Glendale, California
The weight training debate seems endless.

The latest quote I've heard from a racer in the Euro-pro ranks (and his coach) when I briefly spotted them in the local mountains was this:
"Weight training is like training for a cross country marathon by walking in the shopping mall, if you're looking to increase your strength on the bike, stay on the bike"

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 Post subject: Re: Weights
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 9:22 pm 
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kiserkm wrote:
I really dont have a career, just started training 2 years ago but I would like to make cycling a career. Hope its not too late at 24 :)


Well it depends, I won't say it's impossible (because it's not) BUT you are at a disadvantage that some of these guys having racing since they were 10. However, apply yourself to training and things can happen. Do you have a coach? Unless you are really across your stuff a good coach can really make the difference between being a good club rider and pro good.

_________________
"Physiology is all just propaganda and lies... all waiting to be disproven by the next study."
"I'm not a real doctor; But I am a real worm; I am an actual worm." - TMBG


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 Post subject: Re: Weights
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 9:31 pm 
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prendrefeu wrote:
The weight training debate seems endless.

The latest quote I've heard from a racer in the Euro-pro ranks (and his coach) when I briefly spotted them in the local mountains was this:
"Weight training is like training for a cross country marathon by walking in the shopping mall, if you're looking to increase your strength on the bike, stay on the bike"


:thumbup: Nice quote.

I think the weight debate is endless because there are so many other sports which DO benefit from weight training. And there are others which appear to benefit but those are questionable. In cycling all the studies which support the notion that weight training help aerobic power are either 1) actually rather inconclusive in their findings (or just plain wrong) and/or 2) poorly executed. Whereas there is NO debate that cycling WILL help your cycling (and plenty of studies to prove it).

I personally love lifting, and it is a benefit to my work. That's the only justification I need. Great thing about a power meter is that I am under no misconceptions about what it does for my power. Even with sprinting my power actually took a dive in direct correlation to the amount I was not riding, NOT the amount I was lifting.

Hence, JDEITHYC.

_________________
"Physiology is all just propaganda and lies... all waiting to be disproven by the next study."
"I'm not a real doctor; But I am a real worm; I am an actual worm." - TMBG


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 Post subject: Re: Weights
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:04 am 
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Posts: 25
Tapeworm wrote:
prendrefeu wrote:
The weight training debate seems endless.

The latest quote I've heard from a racer in the Euro-pro ranks (and his coach) when I briefly spotted them in the local mountains was this:
"Weight training is like training for a cross country marathon by walking in the shopping mall, if you're looking to increase your strength on the bike, stay on the bike"


:thumbup: Nice quote.

I think the weight debate is endless because there are so many other sports which DO benefit from weight training. And there are others which appear to benefit but those are questionable. In cycling all the studies which support the notion that weight training help aerobic power are either 1) actually rather inconclusive in their findings (or just plain wrong) and/or 2) poorly executed. Whereas there is NO debate that cycling WILL help your cycling (and plenty of studies to prove it).

I personally love lifting, and it is a benefit to my work. That's the only justification I need. Great thing about a power meter is that I am under no misconceptions about what it does for my power. Even with sprinting my power actually took a dive in direct correlation to the amount I was not riding, NOT the amount I was lifting.

Hence, JDEITHYC.


I also believe that weight training, abs, plyometrics, core workout, etc dont help on your FTP but if you do MTB racing you sure can benefit from all that kind of training in my opinion.

And by "benefit" I mean arriving sooner at the finish line :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Weights
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 2:37 am 
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Location: New Zealand
I train with weights about 3 times a week but I'm an ex personal trainer. I probably only get on my bike in all honesty for about a maximum of 6 hours a week, which is nothing really, but I try and get the most out of those 6 hours I possibly can.

I think weight training has it's place depending on which discipline of cycling you are performing in. I would see weights helping for sure in CX racing with lifting and running your bike continually. Replicate it the gym with weights heavier than your bike etc. Core work would also help. Obviously it's not a real substitute for the real thing mind you but would compliment it. Sure helps me anyway.

Each to the their own. Everyone has their own opinion.

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 Post subject: Re: Weights
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 2:54 am 
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The relevance of weight training for mtb and CX would come down to the individual in question.

Even the emaciated enduros I know have no issue lifting a bike in one hand so one would have to ascertain whether devoting time to a training program would actually be of benefit. I can press about 55kgs but struggle at times to get the mtb over the livestock gate at times. Anyone want to hazard a guess why? :D

For mtb and it's highly variable nature once again one would have to look at the forces involved for the body. Even during "hard" efforts they are low. Hence can be trained specific to their demands ie: by riding single track a lot. Now if you are in the offseason and ripping around single track for hours on end is not an option then some very general conditioning work might be a good idea. Won't help FTP but may help in reducing time to fatigue in other areas of the body.

And for the record:- there is no core!

And any exercise that is supposed to focus on it is a waste of time.

_________________
"Physiology is all just propaganda and lies... all waiting to be disproven by the next study."
"I'm not a real doctor; But I am a real worm; I am an actual worm." - TMBG


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 Post subject: Re: Weights
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 7:35 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2011 1:00 pm
Posts: 87
Tapeworm wrote:
kiserkm wrote:
I really dont have a career, just started training 2 years ago but I would like to make cycling a career. Hope its not too late at 24 :)


Well it depends, I won't say it's impossible (because it's not) BUT you are at a disadvantage that some of these guys having racing since they were 10. However, apply yourself to training and things can happen. Do you have a coach? Unless you are really across your stuff a good coach can really make the difference between being a good club rider and pro good.


Where do you suggest I look tapeworm? I cant have one locally as I live overseas right now.. I have my power dialed in, working a lot of tempo/sweet spot in this winter. I will start doing structured ftp stuff during my next cycle. I just took a two week training trip in gran canaria too.. 30 hours each week with a shit load of tempo/sweet spot climbing, caught a cold on new years but im almost 100% again. Wow i just wrote a lot of nonsense... lol


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 Post subject: Re: Weights
Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 7:35 pm 


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 Post subject: Re: Weights
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 8:21 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2011 2:08 pm
Posts: 1365
I love riding my bike and i can bench over 200lbs and can climb pretty well as i have climbed with a pro team while they were training at alp de huez . Its very important to know that there is no impact involved in cycling and if you want to stay fit and healthy then resistance is a must, especially as you get older.The pro riders life is a short one in terms of the time as a paid cyclist and i would say to anyone that going for a run and doing some resistance work will only be of great benefit to yourself .If you happen to be a pro cyclist then your goals are different and sometimes as in a lot of pro sports there can be a price to pay in terms of health in later years. If anyone out there has done nothing but ride a bike for the last year or so ,then go and kick a soccer ball around and see how much it will hurt your legs and you will get an idea of how weak you have become in some areas of your so called strongest and most used muscle group .


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