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PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 11:49 pm 
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HUMP DIESEL wrote:
Too short could cause you to rotated your pelvis and compress your core area to try and get in a good position. I would go with a longer stem, but also think about coming up to allow you to rotate the hips forward a bit and flatten the back.

HUMP


A longer stem is on the wishlist, but I'm not sure what you mean by coming up. Raising the bar would help to "open" the diaphragm but would be bad for aerodynamic reasons. I'm also happy with the current weight distribution. Raising the bars would shift the weight more to the back.

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Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 11:49 pm 


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 12:09 am 
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You would need to raise the bar but also extend them forward.
Being narrow trumps being low. I take being long and narrow over being super low but hunched.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:45 am 
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Tomstr wrote:
HUMP DIESEL wrote:
Too short could cause you to rotated your pelvis and compress your core area to try and get in a good position. I would go with a longer stem, but also think about coming up to allow you to rotate the hips forward a bit and flatten the back.

HUMP


A longer stem is on the wishlist, but I'm not sure what you mean by coming up. Raising the bar would help to "open" the diaphragm but would be bad for aerodynamic reasons. I'm also happy with the current weight distribution. Raising the bars would shift the weight more to the back.


Aero means narrow don't worry about going low. If you go too low your just gonna end up with an excessively rounded back which is not very aero, and your not gonna disturb weight distribution by raising your bars a bit.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 8:14 am 
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Hey guys just wondering - while climbing with high power output, if you tend to slip towards the nose of the saddle it means that your saddle is too low right? Because I'm having this problem and am wondering if I should raise it...

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:34 pm 
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ThePullMan wrote:
Hey guys just wondering - while climbing with high power output, if you tend to slip towards the nose of the saddle it means that your saddle is too low right? Because I'm having this problem and am wondering if I should raise it...


Could be, but also could be that your body in a higher torque/higher power situation, i.e. seated climbing is looking for the most solid base to gain power, and that may mean that you need to move the saddle forward just a bit.

HUMP

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:37 pm 
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Tomstr wrote:
HUMP DIESEL wrote:
Too short could cause you to rotated your pelvis and compress your core area to try and get in a good position. I would go with a longer stem, but also think about coming up to allow you to rotate the hips forward a bit and flatten the back.

HUMP


A longer stem is on the wishlist, but I'm not sure what you mean by coming up. Raising the bar would help to "open" the diaphragm but would be bad for aerodynamic reasons. I'm also happy with the current weight distribution. Raising the bars would shift the weight more to the back.


Just like the guys below have stated, getting low is a relative term. You can be very aero but be that way in the drops with the elbows bent and getting narrow as the others have stated. I think too many people have watched the pros and feel like no matter what size frame they are on, you need to slam the stem. I agree that the stem needs to be as low as it can be, but can be for the person, not for the bike. You can have varying degrees of headtube height and still have the handlebars in the same place. Set up say a Felt and a Ridley. Look at the HT length for a given size on each and you will see what I mean.

HUMP

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 2:06 pm 
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ThePullMan wrote:
Hey guys just wondering - while climbing with high power output, if you tend to slip towards the nose of the saddle it means that your saddle is too low right? Because I'm having this problem and am wondering if I should raise it...

I'm having the same issue, and don't think the saddle being too low is the only possible cause -- mine almost certainly isn't. My off the cuff guess would be that when climbing you instinctively want to centre your body's balance point over the forward position of the pedal, because that's where you're producing the power. If your balance point wasn't over the pedal you'd push yourself towards the rear with each stroke, so you would have to compensate by pulling the handlebars, which isn't so nice for a longer climb because your torso muscles are flexing, and you can't breathe as freely. Let me know if that's totally off.

Unfortunately my saddle is all the way forward and my bike has a nonstandard seatpost. Time to get to work I suppose.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 2:14 pm 
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Unfortunately my saddle is all the way forward and my bike has a nonstandard seatpost. Time to get to work I suppose.

You may need a smaller bike or a shorter stem to get the saddle back some.

HUMP

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 3:08 pm 
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Wow, there are so many reasons why you slip forward when climbing. It could be that your saddle is too high, too low, you're too stretched, or that your saddle is too far forward even.

Personally from my experience you slip forward when climbing because you are trying to utilise more muscle groups and accordingly will want to lessen an overly acute hip angle to bring in the glutes and back into the pedalling equation.

Out of interest, when climbing do you remain on the hoods or naturally come back to the tops? can you effectively climb in the hoods? Not being able to do so may suggest that you are too stretched.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 3:36 pm 
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koolstof wrote:
Out of interest, when climbing do you remain on the hoods or naturally come back to the tops? can you effectively climb in the hoods? Not being able to do so may suggest that you are too stretched.

I'm pretty much always on the hoods when not being in the drops :-)
When the road turns up, say over 7-8% I'm feel I'm moving forward to stay balanced over the crank. My arms are totally relaxed, they are just resting on the hoods.

HUMP: not sure how a smaller bike would help. Assuming the seattube angle is the same, I'd just be as far back, and off balance when climbing (off balance when all the body weight is on one foot during the stroke, and almost nothing on the saddle and hands). Same for a shorter stem.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 4:14 pm 
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OK, whilst climbing at a reasonable effort, can you take your hands off the bar and continue to ride up the hill OK? I think you will answer this yes, but I'll ask anyway.

How far forward do you creap? Something else to think about , is that when climbing you will drop your heels more than on the flat, which will inturn effectively bring your knee further behind the bottom bracket and lengthen your saddle height.

If you are normally towards the outer edge of ideal spectrums for either parameter, your body will move forward to compensate positionally when trying on a hill.

Do you have large feet? Have your cleats set a long way forward, or a pedal shoe system with a large stack height? Only asking as these will all emphasise the effect of increased heel drop.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 10:48 pm 
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Thanks for your continued interest koolstof -- yes, I can take my hands off the bar.

Forward movement is maybe for 3cm or so. Certainly not more than 5cm.

I've been working on my stride, so I actively paid attention, and I'm not dropping the heel really (except when really tired). The cleats are under the ball, and I have very small feet, size 8UK (10 1/2 US) at 186cm.

I should probably measure my effective saddle setback, but everything seems to be in range there too, 59.5cm seat tube at 73° for my 90cm inseam legs, with a 175mm crank.

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Last edited by HillRPete on Tue Dec 13, 2011 11:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 11:16 pm 
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More often than not people drop their heels while climbing. Lower cadence and higher power does this.
Dropping your heels will have the same effect as raising the saddle so scooting forward could just be your natural way of countering this.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 12:34 pm 
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Ok, so we are getting through the typical things I'd be looking at.

Next on my list would be the distance from saddle to bars, lay-back of saddle and also what type of saddle you use.

Now I used to shuffle forward when climbing, but I've now stopped, and I am trying to remember what it was that I did to sort it out. I am pretty sure it was combining core work with stretching that did it in the end, which would suggest that ultimately it was caused by me struggling to 'reach' the bars.

However, i also changed shoes this year, and it was around the same time too.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 6:52 am 
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regarding climbing while seating: I notice I slide forward when climbing moderate to steep grades (8+%) - I think it has to do with weight distribution.

Today I went on climbs that exceeded 18-20%, and (when I wasn't standing up :lol: ) I slid forward to maintain the hands/saddle/feet weight distribution that I normally have riding smaller grades and flats. If I was staying seated normally, I would have to pull on the bars just to remain in the neutral seated position, but if I slide/lean forward I can distribute the weight to almost the same as if I was riding on flat ground and not apply any extra pressure on my hands.

Basically I'm just saying that my body acts as a 'level' evening out the distribution of weight & power. Just my humble opinion/experience.

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Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 6:52 am 


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