training ?

A light bike doesn't replace good fitness.

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seriousconsult
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Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2005 11:48 pm

by seriousconsult

I am a 35 year old ex-mountain biker. I want to enter a few cross and road races next year and would like to do ok in my age group locally.

My max hr I have recorded on my polar in the last year is 186.

About 4 times a week I try to stay between 170 and 180 for 1 hour and maybe at 150 to 160 for another hour. Due to crappy weather I often run on the treadmill. This has helped me, but obviously it is a simple plan.

Ocasionally I'll throw in a century or a long ride with the guys in the fall/winter and replace the tradmill with the bike in decent weather. I regularly get my ass handed to be on hills all sumer. On the flats I can hold the mid 20s(mph).

I try to limit my fat intake. I am 5'10" and 165lbs.

Any simple advice for me?

big fellow
Posts: 1288
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 4:05 pm

by big fellow

without trying to be a smartarse or anything, there's too much to tell you here...

simple advice - structure your training and stick to it

even simpler - get a good book which can give you some direction, including a scientific basis to your training as opposed to listening to all the "experts" on the internet

good luck!

by Weenie


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Tippster
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Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2003 3:11 pm
Location: Frederica (Denmark)

by Tippster

HR's change according to exercise.
"Ride it like you've just stolen it!"

big fellow
Posts: 1288
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 4:05 pm

by big fellow

HR changes according to hydration status

HR changes according to age

HR changes according to altitude

HR changes according to fatigue levels

HR changes according to gender

HR changes according to ambient temperature

we could be here forever - get some references and some resources and educate yourself... :wink: some awesome books out there

John979
Posts: 1045
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2005 11:29 pm

by John979

seriousconsult wrote:I am a 35 year old ex-mountain biker. I want to enter a few cross and road races next year and would like to do ok in my age group locally.

My max hr I have recorded on my polar in the last year is 186.

About 4 times a week I try to stay between 170 and 180 for 1 hour and maybe at 150 to 160 for another hour. Due to crappy weather I often run on the treadmill. This has helped me, but obviously it is a simple plan.

Ocasionally I'll throw in a century or a long ride with the guys in the fall/winter and replace the tradmill with the bike in decent weather. I regularly get my ass handed to be on hills all sumer. On the flats I can hold the mid 20s(mph).

I try to limit my fat intake. I am 5'10" and 165lbs.

Any simple advice for me?


While the above comments are all correct, there is one application where a HRM is of considerable use: indoor training. Here, conditions are stable and with proper cooling heart rate provides an excellent measurement of relative exercise intensity. In the winter, most of my training is indoors over a narrow HR band (85%-90% of max) in 45 minute and 60 minute blocks (spin classes), day in and day out. This is very, very effective at both raising functional threshold power and keeping the pounds off, as you are working very hard but not overstressing the system -- unless the room is too hot. It is also the modern idea of “base” training.
John979

Racing Aardvark
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Location: Boulder, CO

by Racing Aardvark

John979 wrote:In the winter, most of my training is indoors over a narrow HR band (85%-90% of max) in 45 minute and 60 minute blocks (spin classes), day in and day out....It is also the modern idea of “base” training.


Really? Not from my last coach, who is one of the big proponents of "modern" training methods. That's way too high for base training. He used to flog me when I tried to tell him I was riding easy and then he'd see my power readings and know I was pushing harder than he wanted me to.

Put it this way, during my later base period, he wanted me riding under 160bpms. Given my ~ 200bpm max, that's <80%. during the early base, he had me riding at < 150 (75%)!

John979
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Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2005 11:29 pm

by John979

Racing Aardvark wrote:
John979 wrote:In the winter, most of my training is indoors over a narrow HR band (85%-90% of max) in 45 minute and 60 minute blocks (spin classes), day in and day out....It is also the modern idea of “base” training.


Really? Not from my last coach, who is one of the big proponents of "modern" training methods. That's way too high for base training. He used to flog me when I tried to tell him I was riding easy and then he'd see my power readings and know I was pushing harder than he wanted me to.

Put it this way, during my later base period, he wanted me riding under 160bpms. Given my ~ 200bpm max, that's <80%. during the early base, he had me riding at < 150 (75%)!


Not surprised here. Dr. Lim was recently trashed in another forum by a couple so called "modern' trainers on this subject and related aspects of overtraining. However, I stand by my statement which is backed by some interesting work by Dr. Coggan as well. This approach (keep intensity high, modulate volume) is of particular importance to those who have limited schedules or where weather conditions prohibit outdoor training. From another point of perspective, if all you have is an hour and don’t work at least moderately hard, you are detraining.
John979

big fellow
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Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 4:05 pm

by big fellow

yeah that sounds way, way too high for base training to me as well. once you're hitting 90% max HR you're close to, if not already in your anaerobic zone

John - do you have the name of the studies Dr. Croggan? would be interesting to read them.

cheers

John979
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Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2005 11:29 pm

by John979

big fellow wrote:yeah that sounds way, way too high for base training to me as well. once you're hitting 90% max HR you're close to, if not already in your anaerobic zone

John - do you have the name of the studies Dr. Croggan? would be interesting to read them.

cheers


For me, maintaining an effort at 90% max heart rate for 45 minutes is not difficult and is completely aerobic. It takes some concentration but the real issue when training at this level indoors is cooling. In addition, many find this type of workout difficult more due to technique than ability: trying to get to the target heart rate level too fast. I have an isopower data file of a very hard effort under perfect (cool) conditions: for one hour the power is essentially constant at my max hour power, but my heart rate did not hit 90% until 25 minutes into the race (a hillclimb). Here, my average heart rate for 59 minutes was 89% of max. The key then is using HR as a guide is to ramp up slowly.

If you want more information on this topic, go to the Topica wattage forum and do a search on “sweet spot.”

PS Aerobic/Anaerobic are other terms, like LT I try to avoid, just like "oxygen debt" because historical they have been misused. Simply because one exceeds "LT" does not mean one has switched to anaerobic mechanisms. For example, even the 4 K pursuit, an all-out effort of 4 minutes, is largely aerobic, with the anaerobic component only at the start.
John979

big fellow
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by big fellow

fair point - mind you working at 90% of max HR is working at 80% Vo2 max, equivalent to 70% of peak power output - so it's not a huge intensity...

you're right - terms like LT are confusing as they are horrendously misused. I also do agree that if you do cross your AT (the hypothetical 4mmol or thereabouts level) you do not necessarily go anaerobic though that does depend on how well trained you are...

we could go on here forever discussing it!

John979
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Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2005 11:29 pm

by John979

From a power perspective, your numbers are dead on and demonstrate the value of looking at things from the power perspective.

Interestingly, this approach to training also seems to maintain/train maximal aerobic power without intervals. Very curious. However, in order to peak your functional threshold power, you need to really push very hard in the L4 zone, something I avoid until necessary. Low level 4, as you agree, is not hard to maintain; high level 4, and the difference is not much, is very taxing.
John979

by Weenie


seriousconsult
Posts: 351
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2005 11:48 pm

by seriousconsult

All this argument over LT, power, ect is great for coaches and knowlegable athletes, but it doesn't help me.

I am hoping that someone can say, excersize at 90% of your HR 4 times a week for an hour and a half at a time or something practicle like that for cross racing.

I can post my hr records to show what I have been doing if that would help.

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