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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 3:39 pm 
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Tapeworm wrote:
Day 1: [4x30sec efforts ON/30 sec off] x 2, minimum 10mins recovery.
Day 2: 2x20min efforts at TT pace, minimum 10mins recovery in between.
Day 3: Long very easy ride.
Day 4: 5x5mins @ TT pace +5-10%, 1 mins rest between efforts.
Day 5: Long easy ride (plus 4x sprints if you need it).
Day 6: Very long ride (~4hrs)
Day 7: Rest


Curiously, are you saying that this type of schedule can be done all year long? Any breaks or rest periods?


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 8:09 pm 
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Not answering for him, but there are significant advantages to breaks, rest periods, and tapers, but as a time crunched rider yours will be a lot shorter since your volume isn't high already. Studies show that power levels can be maintained on 60% of volume for 5 weeks in highly trained athletes- for you it might only be 2 weeks since you will need to actually maintain 70% of your total volume since going so low would be a bad call. Your taper might only be a few days, maybe even two and your rest period might be a few weeks in the off-season not a few months as it can be for some. The EnduranceCorner blog has interesting posts on the matter even though its aimed at tri people

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Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 8:09 pm 


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 8:50 pm 
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what about Tabata intervals ?I am thinking of doing them once or twice a week during the CX season, if anybody does them can you explain.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 12:35 am 
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The Tabata protocol is basically 8x [20seconds hard, 10 secs very easy], rest, repeat. The frequency and duration of the efforts takes you out of the anaerobic range and more into a anaerobic/VO2max range. Great for surging style of racing and be very effective but are very taxing. Generally I would recommend not doing more than two of these per week.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 8:54 am 
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how many sets do you do per session and what recovery in between sets ?

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 10:59 am 
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Two sets of 8 reps is the "Tabata Protocol". (Keeping in mind that this was the protocol used in Tabata's 1996 study. There are many "high intensity interval training" protocols out there, many which have yielded good results, depending on goals.)

For a "time crunched" session (or after weights in my case) the format I use is:-
4 mins warm up
4 mins of intervals
4 mins recovery
4 mins of intervals
4 mins recovery

20mins all up.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 10:21 am 
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Geoff wrote:
Agreed.

From the perspective of modifying the 'plan', the basic 'rule' of periodized training programmes (designed around Sunday as race day) is:

Monday: Rest day (generally a recovery ride, not sleeping on the couch);
Tuesday: Intervals (I use this as my 'short' - high-intensity - day);
Wednesday: Longer mid-week ride (Tempo);
Thursday: Intervals (I use this as my 'long' - lower-intensity - day);
Friday: Longer (steady pace, below Tempo);
Saturday: Longest day (steady pace, below Tempo);
Sunday: Longer day (road race pace), or race day.

If Sunday is a TT, I would switch Saturday for another recovery ride. Lots of guys will disagree strongly with that, but that is just how my body reacts for ITT.

Wednesday is kind of boring and painful, as it is usually a series of long, intervals. You can mix-it-up a bit with 4x10's or 2x20's. I would'nt go longer than that (especially indoors, your brain might explode).

Tuesday can really be a lot of fun (seriously). You can really play with lots of different MAP Intervals, of which there are hundreds and hundreds of different combinations.

Personally, I like to do my MAP Testing, set my MAP wattage and then produce a detailed, day-by-day plan for the entire Macrocycle, print it, put it in a plastic sheet and leave it by the trainer. That way, when I clip-in I know exactly what I have to do every day. No ducking it or arsing-around. It doesn't matter if it is 19:30 or 22:30, you just get on and do your 'job'. That is the best way to get through the winter and come out relatively unscathed on the other end. If you don't have a plan in writing for every day, I guarantee you that some excuse or other (usually camouflaged as a 'reason') will come-up and stop you.


Sounds very similar to my schedule. I'll elaborate a little.

Let me start off by saying that I follow religiously the Time Crunched Cyclist training programme (Powermeter), I do it from mid Jan to mid Sep, 3 times, with 1 month between each training block (I still race, I still do intervals, but I take it easy and don't follow any structure during these months in between).

From Oct to mid Jan I basically do what Geoff says. With regards to the Time Crunched training zones, I do 1 weekly session of Tempo at low cadence (75 rpm) and 1 weekly session of SS (at 95 rpm). I then do a longish ride on Sunday (3 hours) at EM (80%) and Tempo (20% of time). I also commute 2 hours every day at EM intensity.

This training plan usually takes me to beginning of Feb ready to start a hardcore Time Crunched training programme. By end of March I'm flying. Then in May I take it easy and start again early June. In July am flying again.

What do you guys think about my approach? Is my base training really a 'base'? I don't do any workout in the gym, I find it boring. I prefer those Tempo session at 75 rpm instead.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 1:21 pm 
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That is basically a traditional, periodized programme with a twist. The idea of the winter component is to 'keep' the previous year's work done as the 'base'. It works, but you cannot expect that the results will be as effective as a proper base period.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 3:27 pm 
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Geoff, do you think the book Racing and Training with a Power Meter would explain me how to do a proper base period?


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 6:30 pm 
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I have that book, but my personal opinion is that it is biased toward the particular view of the authors. I guess I am not 'there' yet on the concept of scaling NP to 'threshold' (which I believe to be quite variable day-to-day).

As far as literature goes, the same publisher offers this: http://www.amazon.com/Base-Building-Cyc ... 193138293X, which is a more detailed analysis of this important phase of training.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 5:42 pm 
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Geoff wrote:
...will be as effective as a proper base period.


I think that's the main thing here - what does the term "proper base" really mean... the more you search, the more variability you see put into these words, which just makes it more confusing.

I also fall in the "time crunched" category with no more than 6-8 of (regular) training hours available, and this will be my 3rd year of focused training. Spent the majority of last winter riding in L2 with occasional (once/twice per week) of L3, introducing FTP level and VO2max work from March. Eventually had 30W FTP increase compared to end of last season and 20W FTP boost compared to March. Nevertheless, I was still destroyed by guys who certainly do much less structured training as I did (although we were closer than last year for sure :D)

So this year I'm planning to do the L2 only for around 4weeks and introduce notably more intensity already before Christmas. We'll see...


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 11:17 pm 
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ty-ro wrote:
Curiously, are you saying that this type of schedule can be done all year long? Any breaks or rest periods?


Sorry, I missed this post earlier.

Herein lies an advantage of a power meter. This very simple programme could most definitely be done day in, day out for a season or more IF power continued to climb. It is also the reason why regular testing is crucial to those with PMs. If power starts to decline and all other circumstances are fine (sleep, nutrition, work etc) then the training needs to be addressed. Otherwise very boring but effective linear progression can be used till such a stall.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 1:07 pm 
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Tapeworm wrote:
ty-ro wrote:
Curiously, are you saying that this type of schedule can be done all year long? Any breaks or rest periods?


Sorry, I missed this post earlier.

Herein lies an advantage of a power meter. This very simple programme could most definitely be done day in, day out for a season or more IF power continued to climb. It is also the reason why regular testing is crucial to those with PMs. If power starts to decline and all other circumstances are fine (sleep, nutrition, work etc) then the training needs to be addressed. Otherwise very boring but effective linear progression can be used till such a stall.


Thanks TW. I'll give this a shot. It sounds like something my simpleton brain might be able to handle. Building my own training plan with effective periodization truly eludes me.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 1:33 pm 
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Designing your own programme from scratch is painful. If you have never been professionally coached and instructed how to do your periodic testing, Then shown how to reduce those results into workouts at prescribed wattage to get to your next level, I would strongly recommend doing so. Once you have done it for enough years, you will be able to do it yourself.

I still don't think I am objective enough to design my own programme anywhere nearly as well as a professional coach would. I am not racing anymore (for now), so it doesn't bother me too much. Basically, your professional coach will hurt you so much more than you will hurt yourself.

From his posts, I think that Tapeworm might be an industry professional, training to be an industry professional, or previously well-trained himself. I don't think it is as easy to design your own programme as it might appear, especially if you are still racing actively. You owe it to yourself to get some assistance, even just to have an objective opinion.


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Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 1:33 pm 


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 3:09 pm 
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Geoff- I think the book tends to lean towards Coggan's side of things. My coach is part of the Peaks Group along with Hunter Allen and what we have done so far is not exactly what the book prescribes or the Wattage forumers dictate and guess what? My FTP is climbing.

To the OP- Don't think of base as doing a specific intensity. Rather, the base period is designed to create a base upon which to build during future phases. This means maintaining or building the following:

Fast twitch fiber strength (maintain)
KJ turnover rate (ramp up)
Intensity Factor (ramp up)
Steady state power (L2, L3, L4, and yes, even L5 in some cases)
Dynamic power (maintain. not just Tabatas, but over/under intervals and intervals with bursts as well)
TSS/CTL (ramp up, monitor fatigue and fitness chanes)
Residual rehabilitation work (can be weights for a trackie, core work or mobility work if you have existing structural problems, or just whatever you have time for that won't hurt your training and will help prevent injuries)

How you do this is a different case for every rider, but you can build a base with doing little to no L2 work.

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