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PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2011 4:03 pm 
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Location: Melbourne, Australia
dgasmd wrote:
I spent 2 weeks in France last year riding in the Alps and 3 weeks in Italy this year all over and never once saw a single rider carry any bars or supplements. I visited several bike shops and never saw a single things there either. Went to 3-4 supermarkets looking for something too and never found a single thing.


I'm in France now and have had no issues buying energy bars. In Bourg d'Oisans the bikeshop in the middle of town had a range (I bought the Maxim energy bars) and there were also some energy bars available in the Casino supermarche there too.

In Bourg St Maurice, the Intersport had a good range with Maxim, Powerbar and High5 plus others...

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2011 5:35 pm 
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:waving:
dsb wrote:
Does your eating strategy change if you are doing multiple days?

I don't think I could manage 3 consecutive days of 4 hr+ rides with 5K+ climbing each on a bag of pretzels... If I did, I'm sure I wouldn't be happy... One single ride of 4 hrs with no riding the day before or after... No problem...


You didn't really read all of what I said. A bag of pretzels, a bannana, and two bottles of drink(something with sugar ie gatorade, poweraide ect.) along with proper hydration and nutrition threw out my time off the bike gets me threw 4+ hour rides just fine. BTW that includes multiple days regardless of whether I'm climbing 5-7k vertical feet or riding on the flats.


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Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2011 5:35 pm 


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2011 8:46 pm 
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Last edited by dsb on Thu Sep 08, 2011 3:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 3:16 am 
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+ 1 for perpetuem



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 11:06 am 
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Location: Near Horgen, Switzerland
I think it depends on your body's metabolism, training level and how hard you are riding. It also depends what you eat for breakfast and whether the ride crosses mealtimes. So if you stuff yourself then ride 4 hours then have lunch, likely you can get away with eating very little on the bike. But if you're trying to lose weight this is probably not a good idea as you get used to eating large amounts at mealtimes.

For example the ex pro tour guide on my recent holiday would ride 4 hours on roughly 2 small bottles of water and a double espresso as the pace even up steep hills was very easy for him. For me (far less fit, L2/3 up the steeper hills and riding quite hard throughout) it involved 2x750ml of sports drink, 2x 750ml water, 2x small sandwiches, 1-2x gels.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 10:47 pm 
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From a triathletes POV, where it can be skewed a bit for Ironman distances, as it involves getting on the bike after 3800m of swimming in suffocating latex and a stressing transistion.

- Ironman: 12 SiS Isogels in a 750ml clear bottle with stripes on it to see how many gobbled, 750ml mixed High5 energy in a Speedfil system. Drink 2 from the bottle on first 1km on the bike when noone is up to speed yet, though remember to quick mouth-gurggle-rinse to get rid of residue from sea water(bacteria a very real risk here). Then for every XX:00 hour, eat 2 gels from the gel bottle, every hour at XX:15 and XX:45 have a small drink from the Speedfil, and a bigger one at XX:30, usually not starting till after 1 hr on the bike and warmed up properly. Remember your'e wearing a trisuit which is soaked from the very cold seawater and to avoid stomach issues with a cold body, the gels will suffice for the first hour till the suit has dried itself in the wind. At 100km aid station grab a bottle of energy drink mixed and refill Speedfil while rolling and ditch bottle at end of same aid station. No other aid stations needed, no littering(penalties for that), no excess weight, wrappers and no messing around, a gel bottle and a tube with liquid, period! If get munchy, grab a half a banana, the peel is littering-legal and the wrapper is open already :)

This has been tested in practice and worked splendid and had energy enough for the marathon. Maybe add a bigger gelbottle(Camelbak) to hold 14 Isogels if there are more hills on the bike route(180km). Add 750ml more aid station liquid(grab at 80km and 140km aid stations) for warmer weather and a Salt Stick dispenser with up to 6 salt pills. Fluid seems low but worked in moderate conditions with just one pee break during the 180 because of the swimming which "sucks up water" :)

- Regular rides though, my strat is more modest:
-- Up to 1hr(Usually do these as Spinning, as pressed for time and since Spinning gives me more value for time doing Speedwork)
-- 1-2hrs, 750ml High5
-- 2-3hrs, Speedfil 750ml High5 + 750ml High5 refill
-- 3-7hrs, Speedfil 750ml High5 + 750ml High5 refill + Gelbottle with 2+2*(hrs-3) Isogels, proceed as Ironman but nothing taken till after 1 hr for warmup reasons.

The training ride stuff might be overdoing it for the rides alone, but "training" is "training for racing" and I wanna feel fresh on the 30min runs I do asap after 3+ hr rides, as well as the up to 1hr speed runs I do in dedicated Brick(Bike+Run with focus on both passes, rather than running 30min flat, post-bike at race pace) sessions.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 1:24 am 
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Dalai wrote:
I'm in France now and have had no issues buying energy bars. In Bourg d'Oisans the bikeshop in the middle of town had a range (I bought the Maxim energy bars) and there were also some energy bars available in the Casino supermarche there too.


You are correct. I forgot about it. That was the only place I was in where I saw that.

prendrefeu:

You are the man! I couldn't in a million years do what you do in that small amount of intake. Small for me anyway. Then again, I also don't find anything fun about a ride past the 6 hr mark LOL...........


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 3:29 am 
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Clif Bars, Powerade or Accelerade. Sometimes trail mix.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 5:45 pm 
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For the most part most of you eat way too much on your rides.

In general most people on this forum fall into one of these catagories:

1-2 hr ride = short ride bring 2 bottles of what you like
3-4 hr ride = medium ride bring 2 bottles of what you like and a banana or equivalent
5-6 hr ride = long ride bring 4 bottles of what you like (you might have to fill up somewhere), a banana or equivalent, and something else gels, maple syrup, HGH what ever. This is alot more than I would take anyway.

What you eat and drink before the ride is what counts. During medium to long rides it's stuff that can be absorbed quickly and easily.

Food choice would be pivotal after the long ride.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 8:25 pm 
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Bananas are great and fig rolls! Apparently fig rolls have the perfect ratio of short and long term carbo; perfect for the endurance rider

For longer rides I also usually take several mini scotch eggs which seem always to hit the spot


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 11:31 pm 
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Last edited by dsb on Thu Sep 08, 2011 3:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 1:18 am 
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I would not say it's correct or not correct. It's up to you.
Bottom line is bringing in food/liquid that is absorbed by the system readily.

For me I really could not eat a sandwich, eggs and the like on a 1-6 hr ride. Maybe on a all day ride it's different and the intensity would also be different on those extremely long rides.

Here is a small article on digestion during exercise

http://www.livestrong.com/article/44697 ... -exercise/

Other articles

http://www.uihealthcare.com/topics/spor ... r5118.html

http://www.ausport.gov.au/ais/nutrition ... e_exercise

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I never took drugs to improve my performance at any time. I will be willing to stick my finger into a polygraph test if anyone with big media pull wants to take issue. If you buy a signed poster now it will not be tarnished later. --Graeme Obree


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 11:56 am 
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....


Last edited by dsb on Thu Sep 08, 2011 3:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 2:27 pm 
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dsb wrote:
By 'correct' I mean that the specific examples I give meet your criteria... As to the numbers, they come from Calorie King nutritional software, who probably get it from the manufacturer, which may or may not be based in reality, but it matches what they print on their packaging...


They do meet my criteria to a certain extent.
I do not require much fluid intake or food. On cool days I don't even take a bottle for 2 hr rides.
I did not care on the number of calories. What I said in my previous post about what to take during a 1-2 hr ride is an example in general of what people should take but that's not what I take on rides. :)

dsb wrote:
From her first citation "Sports Medicine";Is the gut an athletic organ? Digestion, Absorption, and Exercise:

"Results of field and laboratory studies show that pre-exercise ingestion of foods rich in dietary fibre, fat and protein, as well as strongly hypertonic drinks, may cause upper GI symptoms such as stomach ache, vomiting and reflux or heartburn. "


I believe she says this to show that there are problems with the individual if digestion is not complete before exercise. During digestion more blood is diverted to the stomach. If digestion is not complete before vigorous exercise some people experience the above symptoms.

dsb wrote:
There is no evidence that the ingestion of nonhypertonic drinks during exercise induces GI distress and diarrhoea. In contrast, dehydration because of insufficient fluid replacement has been shown to increase the frequency of GI symptoms.


Here she says that plain water does not show the same symptoms during exercise and that dehydration does show the similar symptoms as when the individual vigorously exercises just after eating. I believe the quantity of food you eat before exercise, the time before exercise and the tolerance of the individual is key in determining if and when the individual exhibits the above symptoms. Same as in her citation "Eating Before Exercise" from the University of Iowa


dsb wrote:
http://www.ausport.gov.au/ais/nutrition ... e_exercise
Interestingly, the first paragraph of this article states:
"Many athletes put a lot of emphasis on the pre-event meal believing it is the key element to performance. It is important to remember that food eaten throughout the training week and food and fluid consumed during the event is just as important. Consuming food and fluid before exercise should be seen as an opportunity to fine-tune carbohydrate and fluid levels and to ensure you feel comfortable and confident."[emphasis mine...]


I agree with the statements above.

dsb wrote:
In the second paragraph:
"Generally, food is better tolerated during lower intensity activities, or sports where the body is supported (e.g. cycling) than sports such as running where the gut is jostled about during exercise."


Not sure I agree with that statement since I think they might mean a leisurely stroll on the bike in the neighborhood not doing a hard training ride.

dsb wrote:
I'd be interested to know more of the particulars of your on bike nutrition regime. Do you always or often do 4hr+ rides on less than 100cal/hr? Do you do those rides on consecutive days? If your not eating much on the bike, you must be making up for it during the day. How does that work for you?

I'm not trying to give you a hard time, I really would like to know how you go about this, and what prompted you to go this direction?

Thanks,
Dave


My on bike nutrition. On my rides that range from 1.5 - 2.5 hrs I usually take no bottles. On hot days like 85+ degrees I'll take one bottle (21 oz.)
On rides that go into 3 and 4 hr. I'll take 2 bottles (21 oz each).

I might drink a bit before the ride but digestion has long finished. Carbs have long been stored the day before.
During my riding season most of my meals consist of 60/30/10 carbs/protein/fat.

Most of my rides are 2 - 2.5 hrs. They are not consecutive all the time. This is based on the weather and time I have to do them. I might do a 1.5 hr ride today and 5 tomorrow. And I really do not plan on how long the ride will be until I'm actually riding it and how I feel on the bike. I do not have a structured plan I follow. It's pretty much how I feel at the time of the ride.

Does this answer your questions?

_________________
I never took drugs to improve my performance at any time. I will be willing to stick my finger into a polygraph test if anyone with big media pull wants to take issue. If you buy a signed poster now it will not be tarnished later. --Graeme Obree


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Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 2:27 pm 


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 3:30 pm 
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Let's hope so, for everyones sake.


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