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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 7:38 am 
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Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 4:05 pm
Posts: 1288
lol...now that's even scarier

you see people snorting stuff in toilets and clubs....imagine going to the toilet pre-race to see people snorting up!

nasty....


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 3:28 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2004 1:44 am
Posts: 640
Location: Boulder, CO
mises wrote:
big fellow wrote:
now that is a very, very scary thought!


Scary but not likely. Proteins don't fare very well in the digestive system, for obvious reasons. Inhaled should be quite feasible though.


uhh yeah, given that my mother in law is a physician who regularly administers EPO to her patients (the people it was designed for) and is in constant communication with certain pharmaceutical companies, I can tell you they ARE working on it and it IS coming.


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Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 3:28 pm 


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 12:56 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2004 7:33 am
Posts: 2436
Location: Europe
Amateurs on EPO is NOT a good thing :(
Not because they are going to beat me in a race or something, but this stuff is just plain dangerous if you don't know what you are doing. 55 is a pretty high hematocrit level. I know there are people living in the mountains etc. that have such levels naturally, but if you boost your body to that point it is very dangerous. It would be like blowing up an engine, and that engine would be your hart... EPO is a very good product for cancerpatients and people with a series of medical problems. It is one of the few doping substances that really makes you go faster instead of just letting you think you don't hurt and make you push your body even more like fx. amfetamines.
One thing is the professionals using it under strict medical supervision, but amateurs doing stuff like this at home just freaks me out!
Site's like these should be banned, some people just need to be protected against themselves. People will probably tell you this stuff isn't dangerous and that they have used it etc., but it IS dangerous. (like Dr. Ferrari... comparing EPO to orangejuice :shock: )
Please don't get into this, I have seen strange things happen to people and it just isn't worth it! I love cycling and racing, but if winning a race becomes more important to you than your own body beïng healthy there is something wrong.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 6:05 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 9:28 pm
Posts: 1769
Location: Unknown parameter
Racing Aardvark wrote:
mises wrote:
big fellow wrote:
now that is a very, very scary thought!


Scary but not likely. Proteins don't fare very well in the digestive system, for obvious reasons. Inhaled should be quite feasible though.


uhh yeah, given that my mother in law is a physician who regularly administers EPO to her patients (the people it was designed for) and is in constant communication with certain pharmaceutical companies, I can tell you they ARE working on it and it IS coming.


They may be working on it, and I would certainly welcome not having to give myself a rather large shot every week, but I'm not going to hold my breath. They said the same things about insulin for 3 decades but finally gave up and went to inhaled, which should finally be on the market in the near future. It's rather pointless to spend time on pill or tablet development when inhaled has much more consistent dosing, better absorption, and none of the technical problems of delivery via the digestive system. Maybe that's why Amgen's financial performance has not been so good.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 6:28 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2004 4:39 pm
Posts: 1008
Location: Des Moines, IA
Where do law come into play with these sites? There are a ton out there from recreational use to performance enhancing use.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2005 9:19 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2004 10:11 pm
Posts: 728
Boonen wrote:
this stuff is just plain dangerous if you don't know what you are doing


So maybe those sites aren't that bad after all... If you are willing to take this kind of risks, you should get as much information as possible!


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2005 4:11 am 
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Oswald wrote:
Boonen wrote:
this stuff is just plain dangerous if you don't know what you are doing


So maybe those sites aren't that bad after all... If you are willing to take this kind of risks, you should get as much information as possible!


what a load of garbage...so you're telling me that "if you know what you're doing" it's OK to use it? ridiculous...

unless it's prescribed to you by a doctor for some illness (what EPO was designed for) then it SHOULD not be used - PERIOD

those sites are terrible because they encourage people to use it!!!!!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2005 7:09 am 
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Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2004 10:11 pm
Posts: 728
big fellow wrote:
Oswald wrote:
Boonen wrote:
this stuff is just plain dangerous if you don't know what you are doing


So maybe those sites aren't that bad after all... If you are willing to take this kind of risks, you should get as much information as possible!


what a load of garbage...so you're telling me that "if you know what you're doing" it's OK to use it? ridiculous...

unless it's prescribed to you by a doctor for some illness (what EPO was designed for) then it SHOULD not be used - PERIOD

those sites are terrible because they encourage people to use it!!!!!


I said that IF you want to use this stuff, you'd better have as much information as possible...

Does it really encourage people to use it? I don't feel the need to buy crazy lightweight bikeparts whenever I visit the WW site... Nor do I feel the need to shoot someone thru the head whenever I look at an action movie...

Btw, I haved looked at that kind of sites before and the more experienced users often discourage people to use gear!

I don't know what this is called in English, in Dutch it is a "drogredenering":

"If you don't know what you're doing, it's not ok to use it!" =|= "If you know what you're doing, it's ok to use it!"


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2005 5:11 pm 
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in the industry

Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 2:32 pm
Posts: 3137
I didn't see the original web address, but wondered if it was linked from Chris Carmichael's homepage!? :P


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 6:16 pm 
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Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2005 1:44 am
Posts: 78
Location: New Orleans Louisiana USA
There's a good book on the subject of the history of drugs and pro cycling "The Crooked Path to Victory" Written by Les Woodland.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/de ... ce&s=books

I found it fasinating that it started almost at the begining of pro cycling.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 11:27 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2005 1:15 am
Posts: 185
Location: Locating.......25%
this is beginning to frighten me, if its something that is becoming available to amateur races, how long b4 it is available to juniors :( .
scary

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 3:21 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2004 1:44 am
Posts: 640
Location: Boulder, CO
curlymcbird wrote:
this is beginning to frighten me, if its something that is becoming available to amateur races, how long b4 it is available to juniors :( .
scary


what makes you think it isn't??? Plenty of national federations have doped their teams to the gills for years.


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