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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2005 6:21 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2003 4:35 pm
Posts: 465
Location: The Netherlands
Bruiser wrote:
Standing wastes alot of energy but allows you to produce more power so it's useful for short steep hills.

I don't have any long climbs near me and I'm training for a race where a 17km hill determines your final result. Should I be training into headwinds or just doing lots of hill repeats?

Given that I've never climbed a long hill, do I approach it as I would a 17km headwind?


Depends on the speed you have on the hill and into the headwind. When it is the same you do I specific workout.


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Posted: Wed May 25, 2005 6:21 pm 


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2005 8:11 pm 
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Bruiser;

I am training for a hillclimb race that gains 1000 meters in 13 KM (8% average grade). During the week, most of my training is on a flat course. I use my powermeter to pace my efforts, each week increasing the wattage. On weekends, I am fortunate enough to get away to some small mountains where I work on target cadences and my rhythm. I generally climb in the saddle but like to get out of the saddle for about 30-60 seconds every five minutes or so.

Nothing seems to build threshold power like a continuous effort near threshold. I know a district champion who does most of his training indoors on a Computrainer, save for long endurance rides. He is quite powerful and using him as a mentor I am purchasing a Computrainer to supplement my training. Many feel this type of controlled training provides the best return. If you have a long flat road, this can be made effective.

Keep in mind tactics as well. While at some time during the climb your speed may be slow, always try to find a wheel, because if there is a strong head wind the blocking can be substantial. Last year, I lost 6 minutes time because I treated this hillclimb race like a time trial and went at it alone in a strong headwind. 320 watts for one hour, the most I ever did for one hour, plus $2000 in bike upgrades and a month starving myself wasted due to a stupid mistake...

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 Post subject: Grafton
PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2005 2:52 am 
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@Brusier; I take it you are refering to the Grafon - Inverell, As climbs go its not that hard. You wont have much choice in the pace at which you climb (unless you are the fastest in you grade) - if you dont stay with the front guys you will never see them again. Best advice I can give for the race is to ignore the KOM spoints on the hills leading to the climb. Also the every time I rode it the KOM sprint was not at the top of the hill, just where it flattened to a long drag.

As for training for it hill repeats work well, or you can try the Chris Boardman method of proping up the front of the bike on the wind trainer and useing that.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2005 3:14 am 
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Location: Sydney, Australia
It is the Grafton - Inverell, but being from Newcastle I call 3km a long climb.

I know I've got the legs to make the distance without cramping and I just want to be in the lead group should the pack split up.

Not sure raising your front wheel has any impact on the demands of riding on a trainer.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2005 3:19 am 
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Bruiser wrote:
It is the Grafton - Inverell, but being from Newcastle I call 3km a long climb... Not sure raising your front wheel has any impact on the demands of riding on a trainer.


It gets your back accustomed to the extra pressure? What is the vertical rise of this climb?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2005 6:07 am 
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Location: Melbourne, Australia
John979 wrote:
Bruiser wrote:
It is the Grafton - Inverell, but being from Newcastle I call 3km a long climb... Not sure raising your front wheel has any impact on the demands of riding on a trainer.


It gets your back accustomed to the extra pressure? What is the vertical rise of this climb?



Said to be 17km at an average 7%

http://www.cyclingnews.com/grafton04/index.php?id=map


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2005 7:43 pm 
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88a wrote:
I heard a guy who lived in a flat area say he trained for hills by loading up a backpack with a sandbag, strapping it on and heading out. Afterwards, he said he felt like a feather without it.


im sure it did his back a world of good :roll:

im not sure climbing out the saddle in a big gear does alot to your knees.... climbing in the saddle in big gears is a different matter

why do your legs create more power out of the saddle? or is it a case of using your body weight to push on the pedals?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2005 9:53 am 
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Location: Oxford - UK
PNuT wrote:
88a wrote:
I heard a guy who lived in a flat area say he trained for hills by loading up a backpack with a sandbag, strapping it on and heading out. Afterwards, he said he felt like a feather without it.


im sure it did his back a world of good :roll:

im not sure climbing out the saddle in a big gear does alot to your knees.... climbing in the saddle in big gears is a different matter

why do your legs create more power out of the saddle? or is it a case of using your body weight to push on the pedals?


Out of the saddle does in fact add to your power, as you add your body weight to your pedaling, you also find yourself levering more with the bars.

The downside is that it requires more energy as your legs are pedaling as well as bearing your body weight. While sitting the saddle bears your weight.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2005 10:13 am 
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Location: Sydney, Australia
You also waste energy as you're throwing the bike around.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2005 2:03 pm 
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Bruiser;

This is a big climb; I did not realize Australia had ones like this. Warm too; you are lucky! Can you get over to it for a couple long weekends between now and the race?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2005 2:47 pm 
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It's highly unlikely.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2005 3:15 pm 
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Bruiser wrote:
You also waste energy as you're throwing the bike around.


erm.... throwing the bike around? when i climb out of the saddle i move the frame to create more force on the downstroke....


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2005 4:26 pm 
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PNuT wrote:
Bruiser wrote:
You also waste energy as you're throwing the bike around.


erm.... throwing the bike around? when i climb out of the saddle i move the frame to create more force on the downstroke....


you are both correct.

Bruiser is correct in that you do waste a lot of energy, but you do end up putting more power through the cranks, it just takes more energy from your body.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2005 7:12 pm 
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but does it waste energy?


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 Post subject:
Posted: Fri May 27, 2005 7:12 pm 


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2005 12:19 pm 
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Location: Melbourne, Australia
John979 wrote:
Bruiser;

This is a big climb; I did not realize Australia had ones like this. Warm too; you are lucky! Can you get over to it for a couple long weekends between now and the race?


Although our highest point is only just over 2000m, the Great Dividing range which runs roughly parallel to our East coast all the way from Victoria to Queensland is the location of our ski fields and good climbs.

In Victoria, we have some good climbs near the states capital city Melbourne. The better climbs being Mt Donna Buang 16.8km 6.4%, Mt Baw Baw 6km 13% (both will have some snow on top now after the cold front that came through today!!) 1 in 20 and The Wall on Mt Dandenong just 30km East of Melbourne's centre.

Other good climbs in the state are Mt Buffalo 20.9 km 4.8%, Mt Hotham 30.35km 4.66%, Falls Creek 30.5km 4.13% and Mt Buller 16.5km at 5.9%.

Cheers Martin

http://www.cycle2max.com/c2m/cycling.ns ... enDocument


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