HOT: Active* forum members generally gain 5% discount at starbike.com store!
Weight Weenies
* FAQ    * Search    * Trending Topics
* Login   * Register
HOME Listings Articles FAQ Contact About




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 18 posts ] 
Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 3:02 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2003 12:35 am
Posts: 1474
I have no idea how altitude training works. Some say "train low, sleep high" (the guys who sell altitude tents usually pitch this method) and we also have the "train high, sleep low" crowd. My guess is no one really knows for sure. There seems to be proponents of both methods, but doing any type of altitude training/or sleeping for us lowlanders is quite an expensive proposition. Aside from the exorbitant cost (bordering on lunacy) the plastic tent that wraps around one's bed is unsightly and cumbersome.

The link I've posted is from an advertisement from the latest issue of the Australian "Ride" magazine (excellent magazine, by the way-even their advert pages are more interesting than anything CycleSport prints) and this gym offers altitude training on a per-session basis in it's own dedicated altitude room. I was wondering if any of you guys out there do any type of altitude training using either this method or the tent and what do you guys think of this type of training.

I have no idea whether this is available in the states, as this gym (TBC-Total Body Conditioning) is in Sydney, Australia, but would love to hear from anyone who has tried it.

http://tbc.net.au/altitudeRoom.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

_________________
Check out the latest controversies in sport-

http://berzin.blogspot.com/


Top
 Profile  
 
Posted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 3:02 am 


Top
  
 
PostPosted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 3:47 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jun 22, 2004 11:42 pm
Posts: 3914
Location: lat 38.9677 lon 77.3366
http://www.altipower.com/shop/index.php
This is another option.
If I remember correctly altitude tents are now illegal for athletic purposes in some countries and I do not know were the UCI stands on them now. In Lance's day he (and others) used tents openly. In the 1930's Germany built some expensive facilities based on the train high sleep low. They got it totally wrong. Yes you can set record high but that is due to less air pressure. The adaption to altitude comes from spending time at altitude. The problem is while you adapt there is not enough oxygen for your muscles to perform optimally. Simply put you can't train hard enough. Intervals require oxygen. So its clear, sleep high and train low and I will add set hour records high :wink:
If you go this route be careful that the system has alarms to let you know if the oxygen level drops to low. Dying in your sleep sucks

_________________
WW Velocipedist Gargantuan


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 4:31 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 4:43 pm
Posts: 5071
Location: Wherever there's a mountain beckoning to be climbed
Not only is the air thinner at altitude, and hence wind resistance lower, but bikes and everything else weigh less too!! Mass (kg) is unaffected, but weight (pounds) decreases. A 3.3 km increase in altitude would decrease the weight by 1/10 of a percent, corresponding to that same percent reduction in earth's gravity at that altitude.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 4:42 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2007 5:06 am
Posts: 507
HT, what happens when you subtract out the reduction of buoyancy which results from moving to a less dense fluid? That may completely counter the gravitational force decrease


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 5:10 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 4:43 pm
Posts: 5071
Location: Wherever there's a mountain beckoning to be climbed
At higher altitude:

Climbing:
* Thinner air:
** Less oxygen = negative
** Less wind resistance = positive
* Lower gravity = positive

Descending:
* Thinner air:
** Less oxygen = negligible
** Less wind resistance = positive (unless your braking's not up to par)
* Lower gravity = negative (unless your braking's not up to par)

It is left as an exercise to the reader to net these out, and the netting is scenario dependent (riding in pack vs. alone, speed, etc.). However, the impact of lower gravity will generally be much smaller than the impact of wind resistance (and decrease of oxygen level for climbing), so flat out descending is faster at higher atltitude for the same gradient, road surface, etc.
l


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 11:07 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 18, 2005 6:24 pm
Posts: 4389
Location: BELGIUM
dont need to do the excercise as i rode at 3.3km quite a few times.
Trust me, the oxygen depletion wins :wink:

_________________
Latest ride - Bianchi Infinito CV


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 11:21 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2009 12:04 am
Posts: 1118
Location: Gold Coast, QLD, Australia
HammerTime2 wrote:
Mass (kg) is unaffected, but weight (pounds) decreases.


Is this a joke?

I sometimes struggle to tell when you're being sarcastic (forum posts have no 'tone' etc)

_________________
Bike Pure


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 2:49 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 4:43 pm
Posts: 5071
Location: Wherever there's a mountain beckoning to be climbed
Weight and mass are not the same http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_versus_weight . kg is a unit of mass, and pound is a unit of force. A Newton is a unit of force, and can be considered the metric analog of pound (ever hear of a Newton-meter (Nm), which is unit of torque?). A slug is a unit of mass, and can be considered the analog of kg. So, not a joke, but a little cutesy.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 3:20 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2009 12:04 am
Posts: 1118
Location: Gold Coast, QLD, Australia
While you've got the Wikipedia fired up: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pound_%28mass%29

KGs and pounds are both units of mass

_________________
Bike Pure


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 4:09 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 4:43 pm
Posts: 5071
Location: Wherever there's a mountain beckoning to be climbed
The pound(mass) is kind of a fraud. The real pound is a unit of force. Nevetheless, my original post referred to mass and weight, and listed kg and pounds, respectively, as parentheticals.

Now, :back2topic:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 10:54 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 11:59 pm
Posts: 66
Sleep high, train low.

I can tell you from my brief experience sleeping in a tend that it has a huge impact.
But prepare to suffer, specially if you are doing it ove the summer, besides the lack of oxigen it gets really hot inside.

Anyhow you will be happy with the result!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 1:50 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 4:43 pm
Posts: 5071
Location: Wherever there's a mountain beckoning to be climbed
sedi wrote:
Anyhow you will be happy with the result!
Well, with the short term performance result, anyhow. How do the longer term health consequnces compare to EPO use? Is use of an altitude tent good, or at least not bad, for long term health?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 2:17 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2004 10:54 am
Posts: 1395
Location: Melbourne, Australia
HammerTime2 wrote:
sedi wrote:
Anyhow you will be happy with the result!
Well, with the short term performance result, anyhow. How do the longer term health consequnces compare to EPO use? Is use of an altitude tent good, or at least not bad, for long term health?


Hasn't done much long term damage to those living in high altitude areas, why would the use of an altitude tent differ other than the ability to train and be at low altitude during the day?

_________________
http://climbinglama.blogspot.com.au


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 7:35 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2003 12:35 am
Posts: 1474
HammerTime2 wrote:
How do the longer term health consequences compare to EPO use? Is use of an altitude tent good, or at least not bad, for long term health?[/b]

EPO is a steroid the body reacts to as opposed to the body's own natural response to altitude training.

Altitude training does not involve messing with your endocrine system. If you do altitude training, the body's natural hematocrit production does not shut down due to an influx of external introduction of the steroid as in EPO use.

_________________
Check out the latest controversies in sport-

http://berzin.blogspot.com/


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 11:03 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 11:59 pm
Posts: 66
HammerTime2 wrote:
sedi wrote:
Anyhow you will be happy with the result!
Well, with the short term performance result, anyhow. How do the longer term health consequnces compare to EPO use? Is use of an altitude tent good, or at least not bad, for long term health?


As other have said, and even if I haven't seen any studies on the subject, I believe you cannot compare both things.
If the tend system is running well and filters are clean I don't see a reason for this to be any different than living in the highs anywhere in the world.

One thing is for sure, I wouldn't hesitate in sleeping in the tend again, but I would never get close to EPO.


Top
 Profile  
 
Posted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 11:03 am 


Top
  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 18 posts ] 
Go to page 1, 2  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  

   Similar Topics   Author   Replies   Views   Last post 
There are no new unread posts for this topic. Training for TTs without a PM

in Training

AGW

8

1031

Wed Jan 08, 2014 2:39 pm

HillRPete View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. wind/ gas after training

in Training

project3

3

539

Tue Oct 22, 2013 12:47 pm

Tapeworm View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Training in Sicilia

in Cycle Chat

djm

4

205

Fri Jun 13, 2014 7:13 am

TedStriker View the latest post

This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies. HRM as a start for tracking training?

in Training

Kevin3182

1

280

Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:39 am

CulBaire View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Training the Brain PtII

in Training

Tapeworm

4

607

Tue Mar 18, 2014 10:41 pm

dvincere View the latest post


It is currently Thu Aug 21, 2014 1:43 am

All times are UTC + 1 hour




Advertising   –  FAQ   –  Contact   –  Convert   –  About

© Weight Weenies 2000-2013
hosted by starbike.com


How to get rid of these ads? Just register!


Powered by phpBB