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 Post subject: End of Race Analysis
PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2016 10:03 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 4:01 pm
Posts: 639
Location: Downtown Los Angeles, CA
Looking for some input on how I could have deployed my power band a little better at the end of a recent Cat 3 race in SoCal.

Course Description
2 30 mile laps with a 16 minute Cat 3 climb and several rollers (2-5min climbs). Finish is an approximately 300m 6-8% grade hill then 200m flat. Start is there as well. It's 5 miles of flat before the first climb and since it's a Y course, same coming back.

Race Description
The main climb was pretty easy. I weighed in at 69kg that morning and averaged 283w up for 16 min, about 50w less than what would be a spicy pace. The rollers were harder, especially since I wasn't careful on the first lap with position and had lots of yo-yo-ing going on. Second lap I focused on staying top 5 wheels as if I was racing a crit and all was good for most of the race. I kept my power output low, didn't have to burn any matches so my legs were solid going into the finish.

On the last 5 mile flat section, we were at a stroll pace. No one wanted to work. I sat on the front a little here and there at Z2. With 2K to go, I wanted to make sure I had good position since we had a large group, I didn't want to get trapped. I was still at Z2 and I hugged the centerline so no one could come on my left. We didn't start ramping up until 600m or so to go. I initially stayed on the left side waiting for someone to make a big jump for about 100m or so then after the pace settled in, I jumped second wheel and pushed a pretty hard effort. As we crested the hill, I was second wheel but still 200m to go. A group of 6 or so jumped hard at that point and I slotted in but my legs were fried. The best I could do was just defend my position for 8th.

What Should I Have Done Differently?
The sprint climb is fairly steep, even with a good chunk of it flat, it averages 5%, but we averaged 23mph through it, so there definitely was drafting advantage. Did my tactical decision to not get boxed in cause me to burn extra matches? Was it still a sound decision considering we had 30 or so to duke it out on a single lane? Power profile wise, I set an all time PR on my 1 min power @ 611w, but most of that was stacked heavily in the first 40s. You can see the power curve suffered pretty hard for the last 20s. Should my focus be on improving my comfort in navigating a pack sprint finish so that I can deploy my power a little more wisely?

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Litespeed Siena: 6.21kg (retired)

Litespeed Xicon: 5.76kg (retired)

Cervelo R5ca: 5.09kg


Last edited by RyanH on Tue Mar 08, 2016 3:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: End of Race Analysis
PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2016 3:04 am 
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Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:57 pm
Posts: 51
Location: CHicago
My guess is that it was not hard enough to burn off the sprinters. 1200-1300 watts is candy to a sprinter so unless you popped them, even diminished they still win. As a sprinter my sprint is 1500+, so even if I am hurting but am on a wheel I can pop off 1200 for 100+ or so meters. If you are on the front going hard and your max is 1200w your best is going to be less than 1200w, sprinter wins. Post the Strava link. I bet that SoCal is just like the midwest and that there are a lot of "PRO"3's. In my 30+ years I don't think the 3's have changed, enough strong enough and smart enough guys that it is all about the sprint. It looks like a sprinter kind of coarse, not that this midwestern sprinter would be having any fun going uphill for that long at the start of the lap. Get some points and upgrade, you may find that you are better suited to fields that are more selective and less about the sprint.

P.S. Do you miss your Z5? Z5 then ESX and now Altum rider.


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 Post subject: Re: End of Race Analysis
PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2016 3:21 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 4:01 pm
Posts: 639
Location: Downtown Los Angeles, CA
Here's the link: https://www.strava.com/activities/509619815

Our times were faster than last year's Cat 3 race, but that's mostly due to it being a nice 72* vs the usual 100*+ weather for that course. But that's a fair point about it being too easy to shed the sprinters. I talked to a few of the guys that placed ahead of me and some found the main climb challenging, so had we actually turned the screws, the selection may have been a lot different.

Regarding the Z5, yeah, I missed it. It was a fantastic frame. It was as good as the C59, just a little plain compared to the C59. However, the R5ca is the most amazing bike I've ridden. If I crash it, I'll be very sad knowing that I won't be replacing it any time soon since they're pretty scarce second hand. I'd demo an R5 first, and if that didn't match the R5ca I'd go straight to a Parlee Altum. How do you like the Altum compared to the other 2?

_________________
Litespeed Siena: 6.21kg (retired)

Litespeed Xicon: 5.76kg (retired)

Cervelo R5ca: 5.09kg


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 Post subject: Re: End of Race Analysis
PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2016 5:48 am 
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Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2013 7:26 pm
Posts: 130
Sounds like the perfect parcours and conditions for a solo breakaway.


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 Post subject: Re: End of Race Analysis
PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2016 5:52 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2012 10:52 pm
Posts: 467
Location: Dela-Where?
yeah sounds like you just aren't the right kind of rider to win in the last 1k there. If you were 50W under a "spicy" pace for the big climb you should have at least tried to string it out and thin out the field. It would have been a big ask to go solo from the base of the last climb to the finish but you could have cranked it up and tried to force a selection.

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 Post subject: Re: End of Race Analysis
PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2016 11:51 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:57 pm
Posts: 51
Location: CHicago
That's definitely not hard enough to get rid of any "PRO" 3 sprinter.

The Altum and ESX ride nearly identically. The front is a bit stiffer than the Z5. The ride is the same but out of the saddle the new ones are firmer. The ESX is up for sale. For me the 300grams made more sense.


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 Post subject: Re: End of Race Analysis
PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2016 4:18 am 
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Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2012 3:05 am
Posts: 247
ryan how many KG are you? I thought i saw you post that you were really close to 5w/kg if not more for 20min and that was the least attractive stat you had. Those power numbers should have allowed you to do exactly what others have mentioned above. Get with a couple of others and leave most of the big guys in the dust so they would not be around at the finish.


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 Post subject: Re: End of Race Analysis
PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2016 7:11 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 4:01 pm
Posts: 639
Location: Downtown Los Angeles, CA
69kg. Yes, we should have turned the screws on the climb, that seems to be the big mistake. I'm used to that course being a war of attrition (it's also historically significantly hotter) so wasn't sure during the race if it was a good idea pushing the climb.

Sent from my VS986 using Tapatalk

_________________
Litespeed Siena: 6.21kg (retired)

Litespeed Xicon: 5.76kg (retired)

Cervelo R5ca: 5.09kg


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 Post subject: Re: End of Race Analysis
PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2016 9:23 pm 
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Resident master of GIF

Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:44 am
Posts: 2646
RyanH wrote:
As we crested the hill, I was second wheel but still 200m to go.


That's good power ryanH. We have a some finishes like this here, and honestly it seems like the 6 people behind you had a little more patience for that finish which might* be the right move. From quarterbacking here in my chair it seems u went a bit early. Unless your initial jump would get you a gap up and over the crest.... deploying that power and still needing to go on a flat section 200m from the finish, might not be the best move for that profile. Why did you feel it was necessary to go second wheel when u did? (real question).

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 Post subject: Re: End of Race Analysis
PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2016 9:56 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 4:01 pm
Posts: 639
Location: Downtown Los Angeles, CA
@nathan

Everything was pretty calculated going into the bottom of the climb. I wanted to race conservatively -- I got 2nd two years ago by attacking at the 1K to go (didn't race last year). So, with a big 30+ group, I didn't want to get boxed in so I held the yellow line. When people started to ramp up, things became less calculated. I think I saw someone on the opposite side of the road begin to pull ahead. I jumped expecting a train to go but I ended up right behind the guy. The train that I was concerned about didn't pass until I was beginning to fade.

With a momentum based hill like that, I think my big concern was that if I didn't have good speed on the hill, I wouldn't be able to properly react to a strong attack. It didn't end up working that way, but is it fair to say it easily could have been the opposite? With races like this, where I feel the race is won or lost in split decision making, I feel like I keep making the wrong decisions even though I did everything right up to that point. Two years ago, I raced a hilly crit that I was sure I could win. Four corner crit, two downhill corners and two uphill corners. Going into the 3rd turn, I was 10th wheel and I popped up to the 4th wheel by the end of the turn. 400m to go, the three guys in front of me pop. I'm left there to decide to go for it, or ease off and try to grab a wheel. I decided to go for it. I averaged 700w from the bottom of the hill to the finish (around 45s) but I ended up 10th. Wrong decision that day.

_________________
Litespeed Siena: 6.21kg (retired)

Litespeed Xicon: 5.76kg (retired)

Cervelo R5ca: 5.09kg


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 Post subject: Re: End of Race Analysis
PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2016 10:14 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2006 6:02 am
Posts: 3235
Location: On the bike
Re the last 600m, did you not have any teammates around you? What was your team plan heading into the race?


RyanH wrote:
Two years ago, I raced a hilly crit that I was sure I could win. Four corner crit, two downhill corners and two uphill corners. Going into the 3rd turn, I was 10th wheel and I popped up to the 4th wheel by the end of the turn. 400m to go, the three guys in front of me pop. I'm left there to decide to go for it, or ease off and try to grab a wheel. I decided to go for it. I averaged 700w from the bottom of the hill to the finish (around 45s) but I ended up 10th. Wrong decision that day.


Maybe, maybe not. Also could be that you weren't the strongest rider that day and it wouldn't have mattered if you were conservative and tried to grab a wheel as the same end result would have happened anyways.

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"Marginal gains are the only gains when all that's left to gain is in the margins."


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 Post subject: Re: End of Race Analysis
PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2016 10:17 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 4:01 pm
Posts: 639
Location: Downtown Los Angeles, CA
No, I'm racing by myself this year. I've been enjoying riding and wearing what I want and doing what I want in races, but at times like these, having teammates would be nice.

_________________
Litespeed Siena: 6.21kg (retired)

Litespeed Xicon: 5.76kg (retired)

Cervelo R5ca: 5.09kg


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 Post subject: Re: End of Race Analysis
PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2016 12:14 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2006 6:02 am
Posts: 3235
Location: On the bike
Since you are racing by yourself this year, you are probably going to have to be more conservative going forward imo. You won't have any teammates to rely upon for tactics or to help pace you for the sprint. Being at the front with 600m to go with no teammates to help, was not the best decision. Wasted a lot of energy grabbing air that could have been used later on. Hard to make race time analysis from behind my computer screen, but I probably would have stayed further back in the group (still plenty forward to not get trapped) and waited for that 200m to go jump and gone with that.

Unless I was going to try and do a Philippe Gilbert move and attack within the last 1km and go for broke, no way I would sit at the front of the group (especially without a team) grabbing air unless I was with my team and working to get a teammate into position. Just my $0.02.

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"Marginal gains are the only gains when all that's left to gain is in the margins."


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 Post subject: Re: End of Race Analysis
PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2016 3:09 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 4:01 pm
Posts: 639
Location: Downtown Los Angeles, CA
53x12, that's probably a fair assessment, and as I think about it, without a team, I don't know how prudent it is to try and push the pace on the climb by myself because even at a speed in the teens, there's still a benefit to riding behind and I'd be expending more energy than others. Next week is a more climber oriented course, so I'll work on staying patient until the final sprint climb.

_________________
Litespeed Siena: 6.21kg (retired)

Litespeed Xicon: 5.76kg (retired)

Cervelo R5ca: 5.09kg


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