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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 10:12 pm 
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Paul_nl wrote:
But at that level your lungs can still give your blood 100% saturation with oxygen. Your muscle still get enough oxygen deliverd by blood only they can't consume it...


This is not true. Aerobic performance is limited by the cardiovascular system's capacity to deliver oxygen to the muscles, not by the muscle's capacity for uptake. Two obvious examples testify to this: 1) EPO 2) One-legged ergonometer tests. Its all in the plumbing, not the muscles...

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Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 10:12 pm 


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 1:25 am 
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I thought about this and remembered that apples are high in selenium, a strong antioxidant which has shown some positive effects on lung function and disease, particularly asthma. I am not sure if this implies and positive effect on aeorbic performance, but I do take a supplement containing Selenium for its antioxidative properties. Just don't take too much, it can be toxic.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 10:08 am 
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John979 wrote:
I thought about this and remembered that apples are high in selenium, a strong antioxidant which has shown some positive effects on lung function and disease, particularly asthma. I am not sure if this implies and positive effect on aeorbic performance, but I do take a supplement containing Selenium for its antioxidative properties. Just don't take too much, it can be toxic.


In every Sports Nutrition book I've read, they recommend you get your supliments from eating a correct balance of food groups, rather than popping pills!

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 11:38 am 
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:exactly:


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2005 12:29 am 
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Tippster wrote:
John979 wrote:
I thought about this and remembered that apples are high in selenium, a strong antioxidant which has shown some positive effects on lung function and disease, particularly asthma. I am not sure if this implies and positive effect on aeorbic performance, but I do take a supplement containing Selenium for its antioxidative properties. Just don't take too much, it can be toxic.


In every Sports Nutrition book I've read, they recommend you get your supliments from eating a correct balance of food groups, rather than popping pills!


True, but there is nothing wrong with a multivitamin antioxidant supplement, reference Burke et al.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2005 12:44 am 
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no there is not. But if you can get 50mg of vit C from an orange or a pill, you are better off getting it from an orange.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2005 4:22 am 
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zakeen wrote:
no there is not. But if you can get 50mg of vit C from an orange or a pill, you are better off getting it from an orange.


Yes, this is very true. I eat a ton of citrus fruit year round. Berries are also a very good source of antioxidants and other beneficial chemicals.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2005 2:25 pm 
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Paul_nl wrote:
bobalou wrote:
Never heard of that. :lol: That's funny.

But, I know you can do breathing exercises to strengthen your lungs and use techniques to improve oxygen intake.


But for increasing performance on the bike. It will not help... Your lungs are NOT the weakest part of the chain. And the chain will only be stronger when the weakest spot(s) are becoming stronger.

Your blood is after it passed the lungs saturated with 100% of oxygen. And you can't improve it to 101%


The only performance increase with better breathing. Is that you have the same ventilation but you use less energy for breathing. But that is a very small different. Exept when you are breathing very wrong.... :o


What an absolute crock. Why do you think you pant? It is because you can't absorb enough oxygen at your curent rate of breathing to satisfy your needs. SO exercise your lungs ( any physical effort will do this - does not need to be specific ) and you increase your vital capacity ( i.e. can get more air in per breath ) and exercise your heart simultaneously so that it pumps more blood per beat RATHER than beating faster and you have a more efficient system. So at a full exertion, you breathe to the max, your heart is at its max, and you are supplying the max amount of oxygen to your muscles for your current state of fitness. Get fitter - lo and behold, you can do more.
The story with muscles and oxygen is partly true - there is a limit to the rate of oxygen uptake. Without getting too technical, this is where the VO2 max comes in. This is pretty much a fixed genetic thing. You can increase your efficiency( read fitness) up to your VO2 max. Any further demands on your muscles mean anaerobic metabolism i.e. without oxygen. The body's capacity for this can also be increased by training - high intensity workouts - but it is never as efficient as aerobic.

But believe it, you can vastly improve your lung function by training.
And no, apples don't help

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2005 4:40 pm 
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Smallfish, please post some links to peer-reviewed scientific studies supporting your positions, all of which are wrong. There is no evidence supporting your claim vital capacity can be increased via excercise. Even if it could be marginally increased, this does imply performance would be increase.

However, by praticing beathing techniques, more residual gas can be expelled, allowing for more complete transport of carbon dioxide.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2005 2:00 am 
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John979 wrote:
Smallfish, please post some links to peer-reviewed scientific studies supporting your positions, all of which are wrong. There is no evidence supporting your claim vital capacity can be increased via excercise. Even if it could be marginally increased, this does imply performance would be increase.

However, by praticing beathing techniques, more residual gas can be expelled, allowing for more complete transport of carbon dioxide.


Don't need scientific studies, just get out a medical textbook. I said vital capacity, not inspiratory capacity. That is the total amount of air you can get in AND out - the "useful" volume.
And, by the way, you can also increase inspiratory capacity with training - ask any free diver. The alveoli in the lungs are not always fully open, even under stress, and with training, more can be opened, allowing more gas exchange. Also, the vascular bed is increased with with training - just as it is in the muscles.

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