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PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2004 4:09 pm 
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Location: Singapore
Hi dudes, anyone have an ingredients to prevent over-develop muscle? Is there any pills or drugs to prevent it? thanx :noidea: sorry to ask stupid question that i really need to ask. Its very important :!:

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2004 1:33 am 
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Location: Sydney, Australia
What/how do you define overdeveloped muscle?
I know several muscle groups of mine that are too strong/tight, but was is over developing?

Cheers

Brian


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Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2004 1:33 am 


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2004 9:12 am 
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Location: Holland
Training at high altitude makes your muscles smaller.....
But what's wrong with muscles?

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2004 11:28 am 
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Some suggest big muscles weigh you down, I find that extra muscles help me burn fat quicker and thus to lose weight.

anyway, it's cool to have muscles in a group of stringy cyclists.

Brian


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2004 1:35 pm 
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Location: Oxford - UK
Surely the important thing is:

NOT more muscles
or LESS muscles

but increasing your power to weight ratio?


What good is it being as large as the HULK but strong and powerful, if an 8 stone stick insect can beat you in a race, with a higher power to weight ratio?

Smaller / thinner guys will also benefit from less wind resistence.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2004 11:15 pm 
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Most guys have strength after bulking up, though we should point out that strength and power are not the same. Raw strength to lift or push mass weight is different from the ability to explode with power (ie. jump).

When I bulk up additional wind resistance is negligable, though I lose fat and add muscle, it's rare for me to put on weight.

The muscle debate is also reliant on the form of cycling we do, I agree hill climbers should be skinny, but trackies and sprinters appreciate the extra UMPH!

Brian


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2004 11:28 am 
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To prevent muscles, yu should set up your intensitiy right. Second yu should stretch after the workout the specific muscle groups to regain normal muscle tension. Long enough rest times.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2004 11:59 am 
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I'd still like to know what overdeveloped muscle is.
Are muscles on my muscles over developed :wink:

Brian


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2004 8:17 pm 
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I think he means fatique legs or colloq. Collog means wrong intensity = wrong training.


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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2004 12:47 pm 
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I don't think there are any supplements to reduce muscular development, it isn't really what the mass market would want is it?! I think the thing you'd need to do would be evaluate why you're getting 'large' muscles - most likely high resistance power training sessions, cut back on these and this would reduce your gains.

If you were to limit your calories, eventually you'd become more lean and reduce your body fat nicely, but being in such a sport calorie consumption isn't really paramount as it's usually a case of eating as much as possible due to the expenditure and such.


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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2004 11:31 pm 
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Regarding fat loss I don't think reducing the calories is at all nessesary.

If you increase your muscle mass that muscle will burn more calories and you should (I have) lose weight by sustaining your normal deit and training on your bike. Do some weight training (eg. push ups) to maintain your muscle.
I've lost 3' around the waist this year and I'm eating more than I did previously.

It's only applicible to those who have active lifestyles and can burn the fat. Granted I've only lost 1kg but the fat loss is from my entire body.

Brian


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 Post subject: Training
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2004 12:26 pm 
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If your looking to lose weight then it's simple. Burn more 'calories' than you consume. The harder you work the more calories you burn. But these calories at higher intensities are scourced from glycogen (carbohydrates and sugars).

If it's fat that your looking to burn then it's entirely different.
In order to get lean body tissue you have to train at lower intensities for longer periods to maximise fat metabolism. This 'easy' work mixed with the right amount of strength and speed work will maximise your fat metabolism further still when training AND at rest! This in turn will improve your power to weight ration. Get the training intensities wrong and you risk injury, stiff and sore musles and the possibility and worse case scenario of losing fitness!

Here is a simple guide and based on the results my fitness testing business 'Trainsmart' has seen in testing over 200 road/mountain cyclists/ triathletes/ runners and non sport related individuals.

At your optimum fat burning zone you use approximately 30-60% of your energy from fat (slow release energy) and 30-80% from carbohydrates and sugars (quick release energy).

At around your endurance intensity that reduces to approx. 10-35% from fat and 65-90% carbs and sugars.

At higher intensities of Anaerobic threshold or higher (race pace over shorter distances) you source all your energy from carbs and sugars only and no longer fat burn!

So when you run out of carbs/sugars you will 'bonk' or 'hit the wall' etc...
Consider that you lose approx. 500-1000calories an hour and you will soon run out of energy if you train too hard all the time!

Your body has around 30-40'000 fat calories available for fuel as energy.
But only 2500-4500 calories available from carbs and sugars!
So you have approx. 10 times the available energy from fats!

Train your body to source fat for fuel properly and you not only will go longer without fatiguing but also go faster, recover quicker and be able to do harder sessions more frquently!

This is how Lance Armstrong has enabled himself to recover quicker between stages over the other riders and have more fuel available to his working muscles so he can ride harder, stronger, faster and further than most! He is not necessarily 'fitter' than the other Tour contenders just more efficient at how his body uses fuel etc...
Mark
www.trainsmart.com


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 Post subject: Re: Training
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2004 5:22 pm 
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marktickner wrote:
If your looking to lose weight then it's simple. Burn more 'calories' than you consume. The harder you work the more calories you burn. But these calories at higher intensities are scourced from glycogen (carbohydrates and sugars).

If it's fat that your looking to burn then it's entirely different.
In order to get lean body tissue you have to train at lower intensities for longer periods to maximise fat metabolism. This 'easy' work mixed with the right amount of strength and speed work will maximise your fat metabolism further still when training AND at rest! This in turn will improve your power to weight ration. Get the training intensities wrong and you risk injury, stiff and sore musles and the possibility and worse case scenario of losing fitness!

Here is a simple guide and based on the results my fitness testing business 'Trainsmart' has seen in testing over 200 road/mountain cyclists/ triathletes/ runners and non sport related individuals.

At your optimum fat burning zone you use approximately 30-60% of your energy from fat (slow release energy) and 30-80% from carbohydrates and sugars (quick release energy).

At around your endurance intensity that reduces to approx. 10-35% from fat and 65-90% carbs and sugars.

At higher intensities of Anaerobic threshold or higher (race pace over shorter distances) you source all your energy from carbs and sugars only and no longer fat burn!

So when you run out of carbs/sugars you will 'bonk' or 'hit the wall' etc...
Consider that you lose approx. 500-1000calories an hour and you will soon run out of energy if you train too hard all the time!

Your body has around 30-40'000 fat calories available for fuel as energy.
But only 2500-4500 calories available from carbs and sugars!
So you have approx. 10 times the available energy from fats!

Train your body to source fat for fuel properly and you not only will go longer without fatiguing but also go faster, recover quicker and be able to do harder sessions more frquently!

This is how Lance Armstrong has enabled himself to recover quicker between stages over the other riders and have more fuel available to his working muscles so he can ride harder, stronger, faster and further than most! He is not necessarily 'fitter' than the other Tour contenders just more efficient at how his body uses fuel etc...
Mark
www.trainsmart.com


So what your claiming is that LA has trained his body to use fat as a fuel efficiently, while all the other Pro's are not doing so? That is how I read your last paragraph...

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 Post subject: Re: Training
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2004 6:50 pm 
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marktickner wrote:
At your optimum fat burning zone you use approximately 30-60% of your energy from fat (slow release energy) and 30-80% from carbohydrates and sugars (quick release energy).

At around your endurance intensity that reduces to approx. 10-35% from fat and 65-90% carbs and sugars.



Hello Mark... good post.

I was wondering if you can clarify what the "optimum fat burning zone" is relative to the "endurance intensity" as a general rule? If it is a percentage of max heart rate then what generally are those percentages? Ive read this somewhere but don't have the info in front of me.


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 Post subject: Re: Training
Posted: Wed May 05, 2004 6:50 pm 


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PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2004 7:43 pm 
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Location: West Sussex, UK
Lance Armstrong is obviously a fantastic bike rider. He was the World Road Champion even before he had cancer. But would he have been a Tour winner back then?... probably not. His body shape, weight etc... was far heavier and was concidered a 1 day rider and time trial specialist only!

Since getting the 'all clear' with cancer however he made tremendous changes to his training and the way he used his body during training. To such an extent that he has now won 5 Tour de France titles and gunning for that elusive number 6!

Lance has trained his body by utilizing fat so well that even at close to his maximum he still sources some energy from fat. I believe he still is fat burning at 98% of his max heart rate!
To put this into perspective in the 1000+ tests Trainsmart has done almost everybody burns no fat at around 70-88% of their max heart rate.
If you can source your energy from fat you will be able to go longer using less energy from carbs/sugars (quick release). Use these fuel sources and your a ticking time bomb waiting to explode! It doesnt matter how fit you are... you run out of carbs/sugars during exercise you will fall short of your goals. The only way to combat this is to eat constantly throughout this higher effort, but still risk running out of steam from sheer physical effort and the lactate builds too high that you have to slow down! Or train your body at fat metabolising by doing steady state riding for longer periods of time.

The point at which your body sources the highest %tage from fat is your 'Fat Max heart rate'. Normally around 50-75% of max heart rate.
The point at which your body stops using fat is your RQ1 (respirotory quotient). This happens when you go totally anaerobic and your body struggles to breathe enough oxygen in to fuel the working muscles. This area is commonly known as your lactate threshold or anaerobic threshold.
The only way to truly know where your optimum fat max heart rates are is to get tested. You cannot guess as it is so personal.
I've seen and tested people of similar ability but their fat burning heart rates are about 20 beats different from each other! So this would be the reason why 1 rider finds it more difficult over longer rides to sustain the pace and drops in and drafts when he gets tired. The other rider just sits at the front and seems happy there for the entire ride! And these 2 riders have similar max heart rates, similar times in races, similar VO2 max's!

There are certainly other areas where Lance is superior to others... such as VO2 max. His is around 88 VO2 max. The pro cycling standard is 75 VO2 max or higher. The World Record is 94 by a Scandinavian cross country skier!

You can move these areas to higher heart rates by the correct training... like Lance Armstrong has done over the last 7 years or so.
Other riders in the pro peloton are probably doing the same training as Lance but Lance does it better! He tests himself regularly to re-evaluate his heart rate zones and always follows a strict training programme and diet regime.
Have you wondered why Lance seems to be so slow during the first few months of the racing season whearas other riders are flying!? It's because Lance is focussing soley on July and the Tour and training his body to become even more efficient. This takes a long time... not just a few weeks of aerobic training!
We are talking a few months of steady state riding, weight training, proper focussed training, drills, cadence building, power training, speed drills, long hours in the saddle, long hours in all weather etc...

If you need more info please visit the Trainsmart website, but dont look at my photo as it's really bad!
Mark
www.trainsmart.com


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