Maximum Overload for Cyclists

A light bike doesn't replace good fitness.

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otoman
Posts: 553
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 6:25 pm
Location: Nashville

by otoman

Anybody read this book?

https://www.amazon.com/Bicycling-Maximu ... m+overload

The reviews are pretty bad so I am not overly inclined to suffer through reading a poorly edited, poorly organized book, however the concept of the book seems to have some merit for a way to organize an off-season, cycling specific weights program.

Without getting into the pros and cons of weight training for cyclists, has anyone used the concepts in this book? Care to share your program if you have?

Thanks!

:beerchug:
Age and treachery shall overcome youth and skill

by Weenie


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Clean39T
Posts: 181
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2016 5:29 am

by Clean39T

I gave up on it after about 30 pages. It reads like bro-science and hucksterism..

micahmiz
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Feb 08, 2018 3:30 am

by micahmiz

I got this book in e-book format purely out of curiosity as I wanted to see what sort of program can magically increase my ftp by 15% that doesn't involve using drugs.

As mentioned above, and as you have rightly assumed, as a book, it's pretty difficult to read.
The various workouts and suggested training plans are more or less scattered throughout the book. I had a hard time finding where the workouts were and what the routine should be. It's not even detailed or thorough. What's worse, is all the book seems to do is glorify the program and talk about all the wonders it has done for others.

In regards to the program...
A lot of the workouts are straight forward and common workouts that you'd find in the gym. I wouldn't say there is anything groundbreaking about the program. Do squats, do lunges, do some leg presses, do some dead lifts. If anything, I don't think the diagrams and pictures are well presented. It's hard to figure out exactly what to do, and I would be questioning if I'm doing the exercise correctly. I would think they should offer a video instructional guide to show the correct form and how it should be done. The pictures are so bad that I can imagine someone getting injured because they thought they were doing the workout correct, but were not. Also, some of the exercises are a bit strange. I think if you were doing them at the gym, everyone would be looking and laughing at you.

I wasted my money in two ways. I didn't learn much of anything to help my training and I also didn't get an enjoyable book to read.

Carcinogent
Posts: 35
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 4:37 pm
Location: France

by Carcinogent

The program is the ONLY and I do mean the emphasis, program for building strength and (cycling specific) maximum sustainable power. I do not say that lightly since i have more than a decade of experience with gym work in various forms (the good, the bad and the ugly) for various sports (both power and endurance ones) and I have read a good amount of the publications on the topic such as Tudor Bompa who is among the fathers of the pricnipels of converting strength to power.

With that being said the total reviews are 4/5(which is pretty good) and they are either 5 stars or 2-3. The critical ones all say the same thing - seemingly too much repetition and unclear.

The information IS there, though you really need to read it over a couple of times, take notes and most importantly you need to have some basic background on what functional training really is (most personal trainers have no idea either). For the latter the book could have done a better job explaining and putting in context.

DISCLAIMER: I am one of the people who posted a detailed 3 star critical review and both authors responed and gave their contact info if I want to ask my questions. I actually had a 30+min *phone* conversation with Jacques DeVore two days ago where he really explained it all and that was the missing link for me to connect all the dots.

The most important in anything are the PRINCIPLES, as such this is the part you need to understand (or in this case distinguish between strength and power and Absolute Power Output (APO) and Maximum Sustained Power (MSP) to use the book's terminology). Then the warmup/workouts/periodisation make perfect sense.

If you just go through the motions/exercises *without* really understanding the big picture and strength vs power you will NOT make (noticeable) progress and worse you might get injured, especially if you are new to weight training.

I am confident I have a good enough understanding of the principles outlined in the book (I plan to write a detailed blog post shortly and post a link to it) so as is the purpose of these discussion groups, I can try to answer some questions people might have. I am currently on week one of the program and VERY sore and sluggish as is to be expected, though it works and activates all the right muscle groups and I am really excited for the coming months.

Of course as any good coach will tell you that you get out of the sport what you put in, therefore you must actually read the book and not just come here and be:

"I am too lazy to read the book, please spoon feed me that miracle program that will make my FTP +15%, etc." :D

pduffydc
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 12:20 pm

by pduffydc

I"m in agreement with Carcinogent -- The program laid out in MOFC is legit. I'm a relative noob to the cycling world, but I've been a personal trainer for a decade, so coming at this from someone who has a background in resistance training. I'm a big advocate of functional training and have been doing the exercises prescribed in MOFC for years, but when I tweaked the programming and started doing 10-6-3 plus plyometric lunges my perfromance ticked up noticeably. Climbs that had been heartbreaking I was doing in my big ring, friends who I'd been competitive with were being dropped (I found new friends to drop me) and Strava PR's started popping up all over my rides.

You can just skip to the middle of the book and follow the week-by-week training program, but you'll be better off understanding the "why" behind the "what." And frankly, as stubborn as cycling culture is about weight training, I understand the authors feeling like they need to justify their new approach. One bit of advice: If you don't know proper form for the lifts you're absolutely going to want an experienced trainer to teach you. Don't just go off the pictures and descriptions in the book.

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WinterRider
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Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:46 pm

by WinterRider

2 yrs from 7-0 yrs.. and I'll second weight training. I push the sled.. leg press on the machine.. some rowing machine. Really helps... myself I got into routine of higher mileage. Less miles and more cross training makes stronger legs and better aerobic 'bottom'--> via the sled pushing mostly. I do the weight machines after the sled.. keeps the heart rate up.

Try 2100 feet in the gym with the sled.. 10 reps of 210'... made 20 minutes total other day for the session. :D I check heart rate after each run manually... gets the ticker working.
Litespeed 2000 Appalachian 61 cm
Litespeed 1998 Blue Ridge 61cm

Fitness rider.. 1 yr from seven decades age.

That is my story and I'm stick'n to it.

TobinHatesYou
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Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

WinterRider wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 5:43 pm
2 yrs from 7-0 yrs.. and I'll second weight training. I push the sled.. leg press on the machine.. some rowing machine. Really helps... myself I got into routine of higher mileage. Less miles and more cross training makes stronger legs and better aerobic 'bottom'--> via the sled pushing mostly. I do the weight machines after the sled.. keeps the heart rate up.

Try 2100 feet in the gym with the sled.. 10 reps of 210'... made 20 minutes total other day for the session. :D I check heart rate after each run manually... gets the ticker working.

Just do squats instead of using the leg press. The majority of people on that apparatus are using it incorrectly.

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WinterRider
Posts: 564
Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:46 pm

by WinterRider

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 7:16 pm
WinterRider wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 5:43 pm
2 yrs from 7-0 yrs.. and I'll second weight training. I push the sled.. leg press on the machine.. some rowing machine. Really helps... myself I got into routine of higher mileage. Less miles and more cross training makes stronger legs and better aerobic 'bottom'--> via the sled pushing mostly. I do the weight machines after the sled.. keeps the heart rate up.

Try 2100 feet in the gym with the sled.. 10 reps of 210'... made 20 minutes total other day for the session. :D I check heart rate after each run manually... gets the ticker working.

Just do squats instead of using the leg press. The majority of people on that apparatus are using it incorrectly.
No squats.. no free wts.

Not in that majority... me.. by miles. Most at gyms today are either killing time.. or wasting it.
Litespeed 2000 Appalachian 61 cm
Litespeed 1998 Blue Ridge 61cm

Fitness rider.. 1 yr from seven decades age.

That is my story and I'm stick'n to it.

scapie
Posts: 107
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2018 5:19 am

by scapie

off topic but may be of interest... here's a good read about strength training;

https://www.amazon.com/Starting-Strengt ... 0982522738

robertbb
Posts: 2179
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:35 am

by robertbb

If you want to injure yourself, do starting strength. Or stronglifts 5x5. Or any one of the plethora of variants of the same principle that has you doing complicated compound movements with very heavy weights, typically with no coach to ensure you're doing them correctly...

PeytonM
Posts: 196
Joined: Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:59 am

by PeytonM

Be interested to hear anyone’s experience with strength programs.

My experience has result in an increase of maximal sprint power (1200w -> 1400w+), ability to handle hard racing and just suck it up and push a big gear. Increased capacity for volume day after day.

However there are some negatives when following a strength based program. First is my cadence reduces both average and maximum (negative effect on sprint top speed, run out of gears). Generally feeling exhausted from weight room reducing on bike training effectiveness. Increased risk of injury. Can’t do in racing season.

I still find strength training important and set aside time in my training cycle when it becomes my focus. I do this early season where my cycling is more long and slow and fun social rides, not crushing intervals. I have realized I take about 4 weeks out of the weight room to feel fresh again (I still train on bike).

This season I’m questioning the need to lift real heavy. Cycling is an endurance sport. So my focus currently is a bit lighter with sets of 10 reps or so.

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WinterRider
Posts: 564
Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:46 pm

by WinterRider

Humorous.. to hear some of the nonsense regarding wt lifting for cyclist's. More.. a whiff of bias.. same ol' same ol.

IF.. your too lazy .. that works. Bikes are always going to carry lots of the skinny fat types.. to each their own.

https://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/10-rea ... rcise.html

I see some serious nonsense in the gym w loaded bars.. not all of them by miles though. And when the accident happens that loaded weight
does what gravity dictates......... the machine has the weight otherwise.

'Real heavy lifting'.. to mean 1-2 reps I assume. For most all (non muscle heads).. from my experience.. is not worth the risks. This is when sh*t happens... that and struggling for that last rep. MAIN goal in the gym.. I have to always REMIND myself.. is to leave injury free. When I feel feeling a pull or strain.. STOP that movement.. NOW.

For me lifting wts releases some brain chems that give a sense of well being... and variety in my exercise program. Love to ride the bike but I do not live for it.
Litespeed 2000 Appalachian 61 cm
Litespeed 1998 Blue Ridge 61cm

Fitness rider.. 1 yr from seven decades age.

That is my story and I'm stick'n to it.

AJS914
Posts: 5397
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:52 pm

by AJS914

I listened to a couple of podcasts where Jacques Devore was interviewed. It's an interesting concept. He also reminds me of the Stephen Seiler of weight training. By that I mean his 'time in zone' concept. The way the training was described was doing short sets of 3 or 6 with a 15 second rest and then repeat instead of a typical set or two to failure. This way you can push way more total "watts" during the session.

pduffydc
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 12:20 pm

by pduffydc

With regard to injury from resistance training, yes of course you'll hurt yourself with poor mechanics. If you're going too heavy and break form to try to get the lift then bad things will happen, but I'll never be convinced that resistance training necessarily or eventually will lead to injury. Quite the opposite.

And you NEED to go heavy! If on the road you're doing, say, 80rpm average that's 4,800 rotations, or reps, an hour. After four hours that's 19,200 reps. For all the reasons outlined in the book and elsewhere, you need the big intensity (weight) to offset the demands big volume (reps/revs) efforts put on your body.

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

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kytyree
Posts: 973
Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2008 4:55 am
Location: US

by kytyree

This guy's opinion, there could be some useful information buried in that horribly organzied text. But I'm not wading through the chaff to find it.

I think rather than a book it would have been better off as a short magazine article.

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