Upcoming generation of indoor trainers - any advice?

A light bike doesn't replace good fitness.

Moderator: Moderator Team

Shrike
Posts: 2019
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2016 5:08 pm

by Shrike

So looking for something mid-range, like the Flux, Silencer, Kura, Muin B+ (2016) etc

But have zero experience with them and they all seem pretty similar. Most important to me is noise, gradient and price. Road feel or realism would be cool too (for the missus moreso than me, her mileage is way lower). They all seem to cap out at 10% though which isn't great. I have a hill nearby average 9% with some 13% spots 1km long that I do repeats on so I'm a bit disappointed these trainers can't be used to compensate for bigger climbs that my area doesn't have. Good for the missus though.

Anyone have any ideas about these things? Any input at all would be great :)

Noticed the Kura doesn't have resistance! Does that mean it can't do gradients? How does that work :oops:

User avatar
kkibbler
Posts: 905
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2014 9:30 am

by kkibbler

Kura doesn't have electronically-controlled resistance which might be a deal-breaker if you like structured workouts and simulated rides.

Flux "seems" to be most of a Tacx Neo for a LOT less money but its claimed accuracy is untested and likely won't match the Neo. And it doesn't have a motor like the Neo so no simulated cobbles if you care about that kind of thing.

Have a read here.
http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2016/09/the- ... ainer.html

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

www.starbike.com



Shrike
Posts: 2019
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2016 5:08 pm

by Shrike

Cheers, will scratch the Kura. Yes Ray's site was a good starting point. Not really worried about the accuracy, just find it odd that many of these trainers cap out at 10%. Seems arbitrary. Was expecting to see 10, 12, 14% smart trainers :x

User avatar
kkibbler
Posts: 905
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2014 9:30 am

by kkibbler

A trainer's max gradient is just a function of max resistance at X speed, as in, the electromagnetic brake can give you lets say max 1500w resistance at 30kph, but in reality even if you could hammer out 1500w for a few seconds on a steep climb, you wouldn't be doing so in a gear that would send you up at 30kph. You might only be in 34/28 and at 100rpm you would only be going 16kph, and the trainer can't give you 1500w resistance at only 16kph. Hence, max "gradient."

I think some trainers factor in bike+rider weight but which do and which don't, I have no idea. It's really only relevant for simulated rides and Zwift so I wouldn't worry about it unless you plan to ride 20% simulated hills as a regular part of your workout plan...

Shrike
Posts: 2019
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2016 5:08 pm

by Shrike

Okay, yeah I didn't really understand the connection between gradient and resistance on these machines...

If I've got it straight now - say I'm on a trainer like the Flux with a '10%' gradient max - and in Zwift a 16% gradient kicks up, I will still in effect be able to simulate a 16% gradient, because basically I suck and can't put out big wattage to blast up it?

Nefarious86
Moderator
Posts: 3669
Joined: Sun May 25, 2014 4:57 am

by Nefarious86

More or less yes.
Using Tapatalk

User avatar
kkibbler
Posts: 905
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2014 9:30 am

by kkibbler

Not exactly, but let me try to explain it in a better way. Based on my understanding, going back to the point that a trainer's max resistance in watts is based on a certain speed, that's true on a curve. If we use some rubbish numbers for example sake, lets say a trainer is capable of
max 1000w at 30kph
max 700w at 20kph
max 350w at 15kph
max 175w at 10kph

I know nuts about trainer engineering so this resistance/speed relationship could be a linear curve or a logarithmic curve or whatever. But on a steep enough climb the speed/watts relationship is basically linear (disregarding weight because indoor trainer). There are online calculators for this stuff that give very close approximations, but anyway, sticking with rubbish numbers. On an easy virtual climb, say your 350w can move you along at 25kph, which is well within the trainer's max resistance at that speed. On a steep virtual climb, maybe 350w only gives you 10kph, but the trainer cannot provide 350w of resistance at only 10kph. So strictly speaking, that steep virtual climb exceeds that trainer's max gradient. So it has nothing to do with your own max power, and everything to do with the trainer's max resistance at certain speeds versus the known watt/speed/gradient (and weight) relationship in real life.

OTOH, Zwift is a different animal. It doesn't use your speed sensor, it calculates your virtual speed using your power. So say you're doing 350w on a steep virtual climb that should only give you 10kph, which your trainer can't actually do. But Zwift doesn't care about your actual "speed" based on cadence and gear ratio. It only uses your power to calculate how fast you should be going up that virtual hill, and moves your avatar along accordingly. You could be doing 100rpm/350w in 53/15 and it's a piece of cake to your trainer because your real world speed would be like 40kph or whatever, but in Zwift your avatar is slowly climbing mur de something.

Shrike
Posts: 2019
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2016 5:08 pm

by Shrike

Class, that makes sense now! Thanks a bucketload : :)

Say I went for the Flux and was doing max resistance a lot, would that help a lot with bigger gradients outdoors, say 14% + or would I be in for a reality check?

Wondering about guys who indoor train before going on Holiday to the Alps or whatever. Hear a lot of guys really struggle..

JDEves
Posts: 30
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2016 9:22 pm

by JDEves

@Shrike I have the kickr snap electronic trainer

I use trainer road for workouts and think it's great for that.

If i use the wahoo app I can set it at let's say 300watts and I all I have to is change cadence to simulate climbing etc.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

AlphaDogCycling
Posts: 55
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2013 6:57 pm

by AlphaDogCycling

Max gradient on an indoor trainer is a useless number for anyone but the strongest pros. My Kickr can easily handle more watts than I can put out, which is all that matters


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Shrike
Posts: 2019
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2016 5:08 pm

by Shrike

Kickr is like £1000, it had better be able to handle more watts than you can put out! :D

@JDEves, the Snap looks good, is it noisy?

JDEves
Posts: 30
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2016 9:22 pm

by JDEves

@shrike i would say reasonably quite better on a solid floor like tiles. I use in the kitchen and the wife doesn't complain :)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

AJS914
Posts: 5426
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:52 pm

by AJS914

I started this topic and it generated some interested discussion:

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=141002

If you are going to buy a $1000+ trainer, think about how you are going to use it - which software, etc.

If you just want max resistance to simulate climbing, you can use almost any old trainer for that. I have a 25 year old mag trainer that will do the job. It's boring as hell though, hence my topic.

Shrike
Posts: 2019
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2016 5:08 pm

by Shrike

Thanks guys, noise is a biggie for me. Need to keep it as low as poss.

Can you have two people training on TrainerRoad or do you need x2 subs? Or just bodge it in some way?

User avatar
BRM
Posts: 817
Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2014 3:43 pm

by BRM

Here an other approach:

Many people that bought trainers to overcome winter they came to the conclusion its boring, boring, boring.

Why trying to do in winter exactly the same as in summer?
Be flexible, be active outside in other ways, use a simple badweather/winter bike, not necessarily a road race bike. Start other activities, enjoy the different season, adapt to the season. Train in different ways, be flexible.

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

www.starbike.com



Post Reply