There is a lot of questionable advice in this thread.
If you are just riding, either is perfectly fine.
If you are doing structured workouts, get a conventional trainer first. When you are asked to do something like low cadence or single leg drills, you'll be frustrated with rollers.
Rollers like TruTrainers are much easier to ride (though rather expensive), but I'd still suggest a trainer first. I ride rollers a couple times a week, but there is no way they replace my Neo.
Find something solid like a Kurt Kinetic on Craigslist if cost is a concern.
Rollers vs turbo
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It's mostly about what we'll actually ride and what we'll do with it. I'd bet that 80% of the people on this forum own a trainer or rollers and haven't ridden either in at least two years. They are hateful, odious, despicable creatures of the devil. I use rollers at the velodrome but other than that I'd rather do weights or dress for the weather and go out and ride. I will do hard short intervals on a trainer, though I do those on a track bike (which of course doesn't work on a Kickr or Neo) so I just use some Tacx trainer-compatible track nuts and a Kurt Kinetic Road Machine with the big flywheel and a re-machined drive spindle. It's pretty simple but I don't need a lot when I'm doing 100% efforts. The power meter on the track bike tells me if I'm improving or declining, and even that isn't all that essential. A HRM that shows I can't make the last ten beats per minute tells me more -- that I'm fatigued and need to give it a rest, despite whether I'm making power on the power meter.
The real issue is to get on the trainer or rollers. All comparisons of these things are basically, on a scale of one to ten, somewhere between one and three. I'm a big advocate of TruTrainers and Kickrs and also that KKRM but I'd be lying to say I liked any of them. I'd rather go out and ride 30 miles in 35 degree weather with rain. If you're trying to decide between the two, borrow one of each or try them out at a shop. Rollers dissuade many people simply because the first few rides are unnerving, so you have to discount that issue. But once you're comfortable on both systems, the odds are that you aren't really pushing yourself to become more adept on rollers or pushing yourself to increase your maximal power on a turbo trainer. Most people I know on a Kickr just set it to erg mode, pick a wattage, and ride for an hour. Except for being more reproducible, that really doesn't give that much payback for a $1200 purchase. Most people on rollers are trying to figure out how to watch TV at the same time, not how to ride for 15 minute intervals at 145 rpm or how to undress while riding them. So when you pick, the best advice is simple: just be realistic about what you'll really do with the equipment. I advice riders I work with to get a KKRM and after a winter, see if you want to upgrade. And consider getting an on-the-bike power meter to go with the KKRM rather than buying a power-enabled high end trainer. And if you really want to do rollers, try out Kreitler rollers until you know if you really want to ride rollers a lot. Skip the headwind trainers and other add-ons and just work on cadence and aerobic workout. Then if you like them, reward yourself with TruTrainers. Better to graduate to TruTrainers from something else that's very good just so you can appreciate what marvels those TruTrainers really are. Same for going from a KKRM to a Kickr. But if you're asking the question that's the title of this thread, get that KKRM for $279 on sale right now, work yourself to death on it and see if you can really hack serious workouts indoors. Your money may be better spent buying a cheap old alloy bike and putting it permanently on the KKRM. Then you don't have that deterrent of having to assemble the rig, and don't have to argue with yourself about whether you are going to damage your high end carbon frame by using it on the trainer, and certainly don't have to be as concerned about sweat damage -- a sweat shield works fine and a spray of Windex and a towel afterwards help prolong the life of the frame. Having something where you come home from work and simply pull on bibs and swing a leg over the saddle is the best way to make yourself work out indoors.
The real issue is to get on the trainer or rollers. All comparisons of these things are basically, on a scale of one to ten, somewhere between one and three. I'm a big advocate of TruTrainers and Kickrs and also that KKRM but I'd be lying to say I liked any of them. I'd rather go out and ride 30 miles in 35 degree weather with rain. If you're trying to decide between the two, borrow one of each or try them out at a shop. Rollers dissuade many people simply because the first few rides are unnerving, so you have to discount that issue. But once you're comfortable on both systems, the odds are that you aren't really pushing yourself to become more adept on rollers or pushing yourself to increase your maximal power on a turbo trainer. Most people I know on a Kickr just set it to erg mode, pick a wattage, and ride for an hour. Except for being more reproducible, that really doesn't give that much payback for a $1200 purchase. Most people on rollers are trying to figure out how to watch TV at the same time, not how to ride for 15 minute intervals at 145 rpm or how to undress while riding them. So when you pick, the best advice is simple: just be realistic about what you'll really do with the equipment. I advice riders I work with to get a KKRM and after a winter, see if you want to upgrade. And consider getting an on-the-bike power meter to go with the KKRM rather than buying a power-enabled high end trainer. And if you really want to do rollers, try out Kreitler rollers until you know if you really want to ride rollers a lot. Skip the headwind trainers and other add-ons and just work on cadence and aerobic workout. Then if you like them, reward yourself with TruTrainers. Better to graduate to TruTrainers from something else that's very good just so you can appreciate what marvels those TruTrainers really are. Same for going from a KKRM to a Kickr. But if you're asking the question that's the title of this thread, get that KKRM for $279 on sale right now, work yourself to death on it and see if you can really hack serious workouts indoors. Your money may be better spent buying a cheap old alloy bike and putting it permanently on the KKRM. Then you don't have that deterrent of having to assemble the rig, and don't have to argue with yourself about whether you are going to damage your high end carbon frame by using it on the trainer, and certainly don't have to be as concerned about sweat damage -- a sweat shield works fine and a spray of Windex and a towel afterwards help prolong the life of the frame. Having something where you come home from work and simply pull on bibs and swing a leg over the saddle is the best way to make yourself work out indoors.
i use both.
smart trainer for structured training on trainerroad/zwift.
this summer i used the roller only with the track bike for position adjustement/tune and z2/z3 ride.
if i have to keep one, it would be without question the smart trainer.
for the boredom, i watch a tvshow or a movie.
smart trainer for structured training on trainerroad/zwift.
this summer i used the roller only with the track bike for position adjustement/tune and z2/z3 ride.
if i have to keep one, it would be without question the smart trainer.
for the boredom, i watch a tvshow or a movie.
mentok wrote:mrgray wrote:@ico. not really. most rollers the resistance is so low that changing gears can spike power but sustained high power is not possible. they "spin up" too easy. i have tru trainers which have a fly wheel and hence some resistance but max sustained wattage is still in order of 300-350W. (like more than 10 seconds or so).
Respectfully disagree. I have and I do 20 minute intervals at >400W on my Tacx Antares. Let some air out of your tyres, use crappy tyres, use heavy wheels.
I've noticed power spikes on changing gear and then power dropping as I continue to pedal at the same cadence. I guess power demands drop after you’ve sped the rollers up to speed (and overcome initial resistance) on the higher gear ?
Concur with crappy tyres/wheels on rollers, they make a difference. On my summer bike I’m hitting 240W at 105rpm in 50x12 on Zondas/Veloflex Masters/Latex Inners.
Whereas on my winter bike with Shimano RS10s/Conti Grand Prix/Butyl Inners I’m hitting 270W at 105rpm in 50x13.
MY FTP aint the greatest at this time of year though (215W) so the rollers work well for me. If my FTP started getting above 250W I’d be looking for rollers with a resistance unit to replace my aging Tacx Eco-Track
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JackRussellRacing
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BIG HONKING DISCLAIMER: I'm not DC Rainmaker, so I'm not good at comparing power meters.
Here is a SST from last night... the TrainerRoad data (on the left) reflects what the Elite Real E-Motion B+ rollers demanded in FE-C. The TrainingPeaks data on the right is directly from my Quarq.
Are they dead on ? No. Is it plenty close enough for me? Yes. (untrained hack... 47 years old, 66 kg, 260 FTP) For long steady efforts at SST and Threshold, they work nicely. For high cadence spins, they work nicely. For crazy intervals like Sufferfest "Half is Easy", they suck.
These resistance rollers are fun, but there is a really important caveat: like a wheel-on trainer (Tacx Vortex for example), the trainer must warm up for a few minutes before being useful.
Here is a SST from last night... the TrainerRoad data (on the left) reflects what the Elite Real E-Motion B+ rollers demanded in FE-C. The TrainingPeaks data on the right is directly from my Quarq.
Are they dead on ? No. Is it plenty close enough for me? Yes. (untrained hack... 47 years old, 66 kg, 260 FTP) For long steady efforts at SST and Threshold, they work nicely. For high cadence spins, they work nicely. For crazy intervals like Sufferfest "Half is Easy", they suck.
These resistance rollers are fun, but there is a really important caveat: like a wheel-on trainer (Tacx Vortex for example), the trainer must warm up for a few minutes before being useful.
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JackRussellRacing
- Posts: 243
- Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 4:32 pm
- Location: USA
Wormiez wrote:Have you guys used rollers with Zwift?
If so would you recommend rollers or trainer with Zwift?
I have. It is very disorienting. When you get into the fast sweeping turns and rolling hills of Wathopia, your brain (and body) will try to shift and pivot like a real road. That isn't a good outcome on rollers.
In fact, I canceled my Zwift subscription this week after a year of service. I just find it too "gamey" and prefer the structure and organization of TrainerRoad.
i have Wormiez. I liked it because it did make me work hard. Like going up that big mountain I would go for say 250W for the duration which was a good sweet spot exercise for me. But for really hard exertions the kickr is better i think. although i take on board peoples advice that resistance can be upped by using flatter and crappier tyres/wheels.
it is true that rollers and tv screens aren't always a great complement to each other.
i have structured work outs from a coach these days and do those manually with erg mode on the kickr. i have been steadily going thru youtube races. i find it quite edifying and of course very good exercise. i have an industrial fan though and i think might be the most important piece of indoor trainer kit along with an established setup (steel bike you can leave on the kickr)
it is true that rollers and tv screens aren't always a great complement to each other.
i have structured work outs from a coach these days and do those manually with erg mode on the kickr. i have been steadily going thru youtube races. i find it quite edifying and of course very good exercise. i have an industrial fan though and i think might be the most important piece of indoor trainer kit along with an established setup (steel bike you can leave on the kickr)
Bobo S&S Steel Bike - 7.5 kg
Oltre XR2- 6.6 kg
Look 585 - 6.8 kg
Look 695 SR
Oltre XR2- 6.6 kg
Look 585 - 6.8 kg
Look 695 SR
Rollers with resistance IMO replaces all kinds of stationary trainers, if you have a pm on your bike. You'll be able to do all kinds of training and intervals except sprinting out of the saddle. Well with a fair amount of training, you might even be able to do that as well. I can do all kinds of intervals up to around 600 watts with rollers with resistance. I'm using the Cycleops one. It's very good. And I easily do 2-3 hour sessions on it without anything but an iPod to keep me motivated. Fighting to keep balance makes it way less dull than stationary trainers.
