transition from strength training > bike gains

[trickydisco78]

After reading quite a few threads on here about strength training and excellent posts from 11.4 and K.Walker I'm really interested in how you transition from a month or 2 of strength training to transferring these gains into cycling

11.4 has previously said

They each will hinder the effectiveness of the other, so it's more effective (and this is basically periodizing in what amounts to a dual-sport model) to give yourself a month or two to focus on weights, do it hard, then translate the gains into cycling. Weights do a couple things for you: build absolute strength, increase muscle recruitment, correct weaknesses in peripheral muscles, assist in gluteal recruitment (a chronic issue with cyclists, who are basically sitting on their glutes and deactivating them), and so on. Give yourself a couple months to focus on cycling and peak for a couple events, then go back and give yourself two or three months on weights, and repeat the cycle.

on this thread: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=138374

I've been doing weights for 2 weeks now. Deadlifts, single leg press, Glute Ham bridges, Glute Ham raises, Kettlebell swings, a few pistol squats (can only manage 4 each side) and single leg deadlift with kettlebell. I was going to continue this for another 2- 3 weeks then transition to some cycling training. What would people recommend to help that transition? Start with endurance rides, tempo and then hard intervals? Big gear grinds so it simulates the slow movement of the single leg press? Or huge amounts of 20-30 sprints?

I'm continuing to commute to work and keeping it fairly relaxed.

[Nefarious86]

What are you aiming for?

[trickydisco78]

to work on my weak glutes, get stronger, improve core etc. Main sport is cyclocross and mountain biking.

[trickydisco78]

Just found this from 11.4

What's important to understand is that it's already hard to turn weight training into cycling speed. Many people don't do it right and think that weights don't help your cycling. Well, they do, but you have to teach your body how to convert that increased lifting power into cycling speed. If you're coming off heavy weights, you aren't going to have the legs to ride at the new and faster speeds that you should be capable of. So of course it will seem that weights just slow you down. And swapping back and forth within the space of a week will give that result. Try focusing exclusively on lifting -- heavy lifting at close to your max lifts -- for two months. That's enough time to give yourself some real improvement. Then plan a week or so of cycling plus lesser weights to transition yourself. The riding in that week should be really hard because you want your legs to feel while cycling like they were while doing those heavy lifts -- this is hard interval training, not coffee rides. Your legs will learn what they can do on the bike with their new-found power, and you will adapt to a higher speed on the bike. That's where you want to peak. Then go back to weights after your key event(s) and do it all again.

Has anyone done this kind of transition? Concentrated on weights for a few months. Minimal riding and then transitioned that power to cycling?

[McNamara]

I've been interested in this recently as well, as I'm trying to plan the training blocks for next racing season. My initial ideas for a block periodization program including weights look something like this:

1. First phase with long, easy rides and lifting heavy in the gym.
2. Second phase with shorter, harder interval rides and sprints. Gym work switches to power exercises (explosive/plyometric stuff).
3. Third phase with easy spins and no lifting, preferably targeting a race or two. Rest as needed and return to phase 1.

I'd appreciate any advice from the guys who have been there and done that.

[nobuseri]

+1; subscribed and looking for the same, input wise.

Thanks

[trickydisco78]

Anyone?

11.4?

[User Name]

The last I heard (and read) which, granted, was quite a while ago, weights were only beneficial for track riders racing 1km or less; maybe pursuiters, too, because they obviously have a jump start.

Just because some road pros do them in the off-season doesn't mean they do anything.

[McNamara]

That's quite a bit different from what I've read, even if we're only talking about this forum. I can't think of a single sport that cannot benefit from weight training (or at least, resistance training of some sort such as bodyweight calisthenics).

As an example, we often used to hear in the army that "the only way to really get better at ruck marching, is to ruck more." Well, one of my fellow captains was a CrossFit stud who rarely threw a ruck on his back in training, but due to his choice of functional lifts, he was consistently able to outpace everybody else on ruck marches. Just an example that one doesn't have to train 100% specific to the event to see significant improvement.

I've just begun the first mesocycle of the training program I outlined earlier. M/W/F I'm doing upper body and core in the gym in the morning, with long(ish) easy miles on the bike in the afternoon. Tuesday and Thursday are leg days in the gym and a short easy spin on the bike later. Long group rides on the weekends. I'll let you guys know how it goes.

[User Name]

There's lots of info and conflicting views on here. A few of the posters are coaches, including Alex Simmons (I think) and Coach Fergie.
If you have any objections, take it up with them, coz they know much more than I do

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=7120
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=14490

[McNamara]

Thanks for the links, I read the first page of each thread. I'll need to go back later and finish, plenty of reading material there. I don't believe I will be taking up any objections though, as the threads ended four years ago.

The more reading I do, the more I see that coaches tend to either fall into the traditional/conservative camp (strength training is useless or detrimental for endurance athletes), or those who are more open minded to strength and cross training. I had the latter kind in track & cross country, but I've never dealt with a professional cycling coach.

[trickydisco78]

The good thing about all of this is you can try it out. I've noticed my glutes engaging when out of the saddle since doing a lot of these exercises. I definitely feel that its doing something beneficial.

Will see in a few weeks when i start hammering the intervals to see if i can convert this gain to power on the bike

[11.4]

To the quotes from my posts above, I think these were in response to an individual who was sidelined and was already considering how to salvage a season. If you're in the middle of a racing season, I'd argue that midseason is too late to be thinking about weights. Just race and get a plan going for next year. The point in the quoted posts above was that mixing racing and weights in parallel is only successful for a very few riders; for most, it detracts from power development and from racing, or both. You have to program significant periods for power development and then you have to figure out how to transition them into cycling speed. This is very dependent on each individual, so just copying what one person is doing is unlikely to give you the same results. But you can build your own program based on, basically, your own experimentation with your own physiology. Assuming you're capable of it, a high-powered transference to cycling as you come off your weights period will ensure that you transfer the best power from weightlifting to cycling. It doesn't mean you have the physiology to do this without overtraining, nor does it mean you have the physiology that will preserve this strength for a long period of time. Many/most people tend to revert to a certain power level and some do so very quickly, no matter what one does to change it. The flip side -- to do low power high cadence spin workouts as one transitions out of a weightlifting period -- is singularly unsuccessful in the hands of most coaches, simply because the rider stops building power and begins that reversion to a modal power level. As always, there are reasons for everything -- you may be exhausted after a weightlifting period and yet need to reduce weight, so if weight reduction is your priority, you may want to do those low power spinning rides because you have an agenda other than power transference. Follow me? There are many different agendas at work and all depend on the unique physiology and morphology of the rider in question.

[McNamara]

I agree that mid-season is a bad time to start weight training for the first time. I just checked out Joe Friel's training bible from the library and it has some detailed ideas on integrating weights into the base training phase, plus some maintenance lifting later. This happens to be the off-season for me, so a pretty good time to be back in the gym in addition to putting in my base kms.

[jpanspac]

...There are many different agendas at work and all depend on the unique physiology and morphology of the rider in question.

I think that's the crux of it right there. Every argument I've read, either for or against weight training, seems to lump all cyclists into one category. But a heavily muscled sprinter is going to respond to weight training differently than a svelte climber or high-cadence spinner. I think weight training helps my cycling because I'm in the first category, and my body just likes dealing with heavy weights and big gears.