How do you know you reached your limit?

A light bike doesn't replace good fitness.

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claus
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by claus

It can be somehow frustrating not to see any real improvement for several years and hence I'm wondering how you can figure out whether you are (very) close to the highest "fitness" (let's say wrt CP20 and CP8) that you will be able to achieve?

Let's set some parameters for this to make it easier to answer:
  • riding for more than 30 years.
  • riding for more than 5 years with a power meter to track the various CPx values.
  • older than 50 years (which seems to be considered as "turning" point, i.e., you are unlikely to get faster/stronger after that age).

To avoid getting stuck at some plateau the training approach might have been changed a few times, e.g.,
  • "hard" rides, e.g., riding close to CP60 for 60m.
  • sweet spot training: 2x20m at ~95 FTP.
  • 1x20m at CP20, rest easy.
  • HIIT
  • long rides (3-4 hours) below Z3, plus some intervals.

Let's say CP20 is about 4.5W/kg and has barely changed over the last 5 years.
How do you know you could (not) reach a higher value, e.g., 5W/kg?

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Rick
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by Rick

I suspect there is no real answer to this question, except in some statistically averaged way; which would still leave open the possibility of individual improvement or "peaks" in performance based on random variation and/or temporary variations in motivational level.

Or, look at it another way: if you are tracking via "watts per kilogram", almost everyone could lose another 5 kg with sufficient motivation. At some point it might not be "healthy", but you would definitely rocket up the climbs a little faster.

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LouisN
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by LouisN

I was asking myself the same thing yesterday, after a less than average MAP test.

I remain positive there are little things that can be done to improve.
I suppose you have already done most of them.


Or big things, but that would be in fantasy life, like becoming a billionnaire, and put every penny on your training ( :wink: ), or lifestyle change if it gets in the way of your cycling life.


But that's just me...
It would be my dream goal to get to 4.5W/kg :)

I try to follow the latest "trends" in cycling training, like HIIT micro intervals, polarised training, and almost no SST tempo or L3 trainings, but I'm not shure it's the best method at past 50. Very tiring....

LOuis :)

wheelzqc
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by wheelzqc

@LouisN, it is tiring to do HIIT, that's the 20% (lets say 2 sessions per week). You don't find you recover enough in the other days ?

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prebsy
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by prebsy

I'd look at long term trends of training load as a litmus test. It's very possible you just aren't training hard enough to elicit a serious response.

Outside of hitting the age ceiling if riding your bike isn't a full time job I'd say no you aren't close to your ceiling. The question is are you willing to alter your lifestyle to push further into a curve of diminishing returns?

claus
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by claus

Let's add two more items to the "already done" list:
  • weight is as low as possible without causing health problems, e.g., BMI is below 18.
  • life has been arranged around cycling... such that training 4 hours a day can be done
    (about 20 hours/week yearly average).

TSS is up to 1000/week, which should be "hard enough", right?

glepore
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by glepore

56 here. Fwiw, I'm of the opinion that as I age I've need to add 2 things, more supra lt work but more importantly more forced recovery after hard days. Life sometimes builds this in but other times you just need to lay off


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mrlobber
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by mrlobber

For the past 4 years I've basically "plateaued" +/-10W with 7-8 hours a week (this includes everything, racing, "commuting" and recovery rides) - TSS usually ranges from 300-550 per week. No breakthrough gains, but no breakthrough losses either (compared to what I've been reading about people gaining or losing 50 watts ir 6 months - also here). Needless to say, I've experimented with both LSD, SST as well as polarised approaches (and most times arrived at the conclusions myself, which are pretty "common knowledge" in training discussions now).

However, I've always wondered what are those guys actually doing who post that they manage to sustain 1000 TSS weeks and balance that with full time job and family (in my case already 3 kids). And what kind of genetic or other gifts do have those guys who are the same age es me (around 35), also spend the same time training as I do, but somehow just keep getting stronger and stronger each year.
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mattr
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by mattr

They might have a different lifestyle, they might never see their kids or wife, they might be able to function on 2 hours a day less sleep than you, work might be better suited to recovery, or better suited to use as training. They might simply have better genetic base material, they might be doped to the gills.

I know my jobs have always been good for recovery, i can sit down and relax, take a gentle walk, then do another training session on the way home. Other people have workshop jobs where they can use the lifting, twisting and generally moving around as exercise and recover in the evenings (when i was training..........)

It's too complex a question to answer with any level of accuracy, so it's best to not worry about it and do what you can, within your frame work to do as best you can.

claus
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by claus

mrlobber wrote:However, I've always wondered what are those guys actually doing who post that they manage to sustain 1000 TSS weeks and balance that with full time job and family (in my case already 3 kids).


Did "those guys [[...]] who post that they manage to sustain 1000 TSS weeks" also write that they have a family? Maybe they don't....
And then you could have each (week) day:
  • 8 hours of sleep
  • 8 hours of work
  • 4 hours of riding
  • 4 hours for the rest...

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Tinea Pedis
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by Tinea Pedis

claus wrote:
TSS is up to 1000/week, which should be "hard enough", right?

Answer is still 'it depends'. Also, what is the end goal here? To know where you athletic limit lies, or win more races? The answer to that really does dictate what may or may not need to change. And there are a lot of ways to rack up a TSS of 1000/week and still not be training optimally.

I've had a Vo2 'block' that has gone from a Monday to Friday and I was absolutely cooked by the Friday. No racing that weekend, thankfully. Legs came up well once I had recovered. But if TSS (and the magical 1000 mark) was anything to go by, it wasn't a 'hard' week (according to TSS alone).

claus
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by claus

The "end goal" is to figure out whether I can achieve "any real improvement" (esp. for CP3-CP8 and up to CP20).
That is, if I knew that I'm close to my genetic limit, then my lack of progress wouldn't be due to the "wrong" training.

I chose the "1000 TSS" example (which for me is mostly a side-effect of riding so much) just as one simple metric to specify "hard" training, obviously there are others.
My current metric for training hard are the power numbers for the intervals that I'm doing.

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Tinea Pedis
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by Tinea Pedis

claus wrote:My current metric for training hard are the power numbers for the intervals that I'm doing.

Isn't that everyone's who uses a power meter?

And there's no 'wrong' training. Just varying degrees of benefit. If you've been riding/racing/training for this long surely you now have an idea of what your body responds better to?

goodboyr
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by goodboyr

Take a look at "xert".

http://www.baronbiosys.com/

. It's in beta right now. Does a calc that gives you "MPA". Sort of like how much gas is left in the tank at any point in a ride.

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LouisN
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by LouisN

wheelzqc wrote:@LouisN, it is tiring to do HIIT, that's the 20% (lets say 2 sessions per week). You don't find you recover enough in the other days ?


Yes, Generally speaking, I "quit" a programmed hard session every 10-14 days.
I'm not shure I'm doing the right method. Just about every "older"( ;) ) men are training old school methods, or do lots of SST-Tempo stuff.
My other ambiguity is I have no clue what is my kind of profile, and what precise goals I want to achieve.
So I'm trying to do some broad spetrum improvements.
NOt shure it's that great a method...

Louis :)

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