Lower back fatigue... glutes, hamstrings, core or other?

[tigoose]

I also get this pain.
What is the number one cause is pushing/grinding gears. First thing I did was get compacts but then I was just on smaller cogs out back.
Then saddle position changes which helped a little until it fatigues in the new position.
I eventually got speedplays and was able to pull the cleats further back than ever before. This has helped the most.
I started riding the mtb more and thought the set up was the same but forgot about the cleat position. My back was in big pain after a few hours and couldn't stand upright after a ride because of it.
Pulled the cleats back for the mtb and bingo !!
As mentioned before I may give light to medium weight deadlifts to assist.

[Carcinogent]

Well if your position on the bike is ok. Low back pain is usually caused by.

1. Inactive glutes so your lumbar spine needs to flex/move to make up for that. You need to ACTIVATE them with low load exercises - ie going straight into squats/lunges, your brain is still not sending the signals for the glutes to contract, as such you predominantly recruit the wrong muscles and strengthen them rather than the glutes.

The fact that you get it towards the end of events means that the demands of the race/event have surpassed your ability to compensate.

2. Unstable/weak hip flexors (caused by weak glutes)
Overall muscle imbalances caused by 1 and 2; ie something takes the role ofwhatever is weak/inactive and as such you use predominantly muscles not designed to handle such a load.
More info on points 1 and 2 here (http://www.thetallcyclist.com/2016/01/f ... uncitonal/)

3. Bars too low, though this is too low for YOUR ability to extend your spine and pivot at the hips.

4. This is a really out there concept though after reading about it it makes perfect sense. (Chronic) pain and such is a result of bottled up anger/anxiety (that is not always realized). Basically (and i am generalzing quite a bit) rather than facing up all the ugly negative emotions that are trying to get out of the unconscious, the brain creates a physical pain signal in order to channel your attention there. Before labelling it as quackery/crazyness you can read Healing Back Pain by Dr. John E Sarno. It is 150 pages so you can get through it in an afternoon.

[Nefarious86]

I cop it if I grind. Front end isn't crazy low and isn't an issue on flowing trails.

The bigger issue is upper back pain on the road bike that no one seems to be able to fix

[tigoose]

^^^
Increase the saddle to bar drop. The bars are sending pressure back into your body. Saddle for/after might need attention too.
Good luck.
I had 15 years of that through professional fits and all. If you can't get enough drop then get a smaller frame.

[WMW]

I struggled with lower back pain/fatigue last year towards the end of races (mtb XCO, XC marathon and CX races, typically 1-3hr long). It's a dull ache around the lower back/upper pelvis. I had initially thought it was a core issue, but doing regular core work didn't seem to help an awful lot. Wondering if it's glutes/hamstring related.

In my case I fixed it with posture. Relaxing the core.

Had lower back pain when riding for decades. It would kick in after ~20min of going hard. After that I could get momentary relief by standing (while riding), but that was it. To get any lasting relief I'd have to get off the bike completely for a few minutes, then repeat the cycle. If it was a race I'd just tough it out. I tried all sorts of positional and equipment changes and nothing helped.

One day I was paying particular attention to this and it just clicked. I was accustomed to holding a lot of tension in my core and lower back when I pedaled. I'd tried to relax this on many occasions but I basically couldn't. The problem is that it required a pretty massive change in how I pedaled (muscle engagement through the stroke). When I finally figured it out, I could lower the bars as much as I wanted, and ride as long as I wanted without pain. Lots of drop actually feels better to me.

I think it's imperative that you experiment with this while riding easy. #1, keep your core relaxed! Extend your stomach and pivot your pelvis forward. Now pedal while in this posture, while focusing on keeping your core relaxed. Get used to how it feels before attempting any harder efforts.

For me it felt very weird at first, but I could tell I was onto something. It didn't take long though before it was second nature, and I was able to ride hard with no power loss.

[Nefarious86]

^^^
Increase the saddle to bar drop. The bars are sending pressure back into your body. Saddle for/after might need attention too.
Good luck.
I had 15 years of that through professional fits and all. If you can't get enough drop then get a smaller frame.

In relation to my issue?

[tigoose]

^^^
Increase the saddle to bar drop. The bars are sending pressure back into your body. Saddle for/after might need attention too.
Good luck.
I had 15 years of that through professional fits and all. If you can't get enough drop then get a smaller frame.

In relation to my issue?

yes. i was fitted to 55 and 56cm frames. but i'd always get upper back tightness from the bars too high and this is without a major spacer stack. anyway after years of putting up with it i went to an osteopath. hwe said it's ok to go low so thats what i did. i'm now on a 53cm old fondriest with a 126mm head tube and a trials bike stem flipped down at -35 deg. my cranks are 180mm and i'm 178cm with an 88.5cm inseam. saddle height iirc at 148mm. i don't get upper back pain anymore.

[User Name]

Jee, many of these comments describe my problems.
I get some back pain, I gather from sacroiliac compression, but my big problem is hamstring tightness.

I've had to drop my saddle about an inch the last 2 years or so!! A farking INCH!!!!?!!? If my saddle dropped an inch during a race when I was 30, I'd most likely would've quit the race.

Thank god it's plateaued; it's been the same height for around 6 months.

Trying to raise the saddle, even a few mm, tugs on the hammies when I hammering. And if I push through the hamstring tightness with the saddle up slightly, it then usually causes back pain after a little while of grinding.

It's driving me nuts, because I think I'm losing power being so low. I've had a Powertap for only a few months, so I can't compare my output before having to lower my seat.

Why? Old age? I'm in my 40s. I stretch a fair bit, but probably not enough, and/or the wrong stuff.

Glute weakness? I reckon they've gradually atrophied since I quit jogging ~20 years ago.
I also get some mild glute soreness around the piriformis, so could it piriformis syndrome? Doing the "tennis ball in the glute/piriformis" thing is absolute agony, so I avoid doing it.

Also, the top of one of my hip flexors on both legs hurt when I poke them. I think it could be the sartorius.

Help

[patchsurfer]

^ if the tennis ball in the piriformes and hip adductors is hurting, you should probably be doing it...I haven't been doing it long so I won't prodfess expertise - my background is that I have a spondy after a big impact a few years ago (surfing not cycling). Once or twice a year one side of my back goes into full, locked up spasm. Doing the foam roller / tennis thing is great to the point of once or twice being able to fully self-treat to get out of spasm. And yes, it hurts like bloody hell.

Google myofascial release and there's plenty of videos to get stuck into. There's also a french osteo whose name escapes me who has a series of stretches for releasing the fascia...HTH, but sounds to me like you could do with going to see an osteo yourself...

Cheers,

Simon

[User Name]

Thanks very much. I'll Google the French dude.
I admit don't stretch enough. Isn't it 'funny' how many of us can easily find plenty of time and energy to ride hours and hours, but stretching more than twice a week is just too hard?!