Best post ride recovery drink?
Moderator: Moderator Team
Prend, I totally agree.
Generally speaking I don't drink on training days, after a hard session alcohol is not a consideration in the slightest. Thought makes me reel.
Generally speaking I don't drink on training days, after a hard session alcohol is not a consideration in the slightest. Thought makes me reel.
"Physiology is all just propaganda and lies... all waiting to be disproven by the next study."
"I'm not a real doctor; But I am a real worm; I am an actual worm." - TMBG
"I'm not a real doctor; But I am a real worm; I am an actual worm." - TMBG
Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓ Broad Selection ✓ Worldwide Delivery ✓
www.starbike.com
-
- Posts: 150
- Joined: Sat Sep 05, 2015 4:05 pm
I make my own potion for recovery
in a juice maker I put a pint of hazelnut milk, 1 whole banana, couple of spoonfuls of peanut butter (good quality peanut butter not that sugar filled crap) and lastly a scoop of chocolate myprotein whey powder. it tastes pretty good if you like all the ingredients I threw in but it tastes a lot better than just shaking protein powder into water.
in a juice maker I put a pint of hazelnut milk, 1 whole banana, couple of spoonfuls of peanut butter (good quality peanut butter not that sugar filled crap) and lastly a scoop of chocolate myprotein whey powder. it tastes pretty good if you like all the ingredients I threw in but it tastes a lot better than just shaking protein powder into water.
I think everyone needs to consider how restricted the clinical studies are, and how poorly matched most of them are to recovery from a cycling workout.
Most studies are done on 1RM or close to 1RM efforts done to exhaustion. This is not what cycling is about. Further, they are short workouts. The authors of most of the studies acknowledge that the influence of insulin regulation in these studies is basically unknown, while that is studied much more extensively in cycling athletes and is viewed to be very important in controlling mitochondrial synthesis and energy management in trained cyclist. A number of the studies quoted merely look at protein ingestion followed by proteolytic peaks post-exercise and attempt to define anabolic windows (for or against). This is marginally relevant to bodybuilders, largely irrelevant to a semi-trained endurance cyclist. As experimental protocols they are narrowly defined so as to be good studies, but narrow definition limits their relevance to the sport at hand.
For a cyclist in an endurance event (such as a hard training ride), there are a wide variety of issues that need to be addressed. To restore the body to a basal state before the next workout one needs to address water and mineral depletion, oxidant consumption, waste removal, and so on. To ensure that musculature has recovered, one needs to cease proteolysis and have engaged in such glycogen repletion that the musculature is ready for another bout of endurance exercise. Plus there are various repair processes needed. Insulin and other hormonal feedback systems need to be readjusted to basal levels and responsiveness. There are various important neurological issues to be addressed so that the firing processes are equally functional the next day. Of course there are also basic issues about improving pulmonary and cardiac performance which are as important to a cyclist (but not necessarily to a bodybuilder) but have their own independent timeframes. And all of this comes about before we even begin to discuss improvement in strength or aerobic endurance.
In short, these studies look at one tiny aspect of the total picture. And they do so often for athletes whose needs are relatively incompatible, for the most part, with those of cyclists. And while some of them appear quite rigorous in their design, they are still often flawed and they typically attempt to draw conclusions that range far beyond the scope of their experimental protocol. When it comes to "anabolic windows," the best evidence suggests that you actually want to be ingesting protein before, during, and after a workout. The evidence on how long the anabolic window lasts post exercise is so contradictory that you can pick the citation of your choice to get a peak window, or even whether you are measuring a decline beginning immediately post-exercise, a unimodal peak, or something completely different. And none of this work addresses the matter with regards to variability among individual athletes -- the mean or modal data show one thing but the actual individual athlete data are very scattered.
The best conclusion from the literature is likely that careful general nutrition is the most important issue. Continuous nutrition before, during, and after an endurance event is critical. The evidence increasingly suggests that carb to protein swapping is less productive and carb loading before with protein loading after does not work as well as once thought. I don't want to get into a debate over every phrase in this or any post in this thread. I think the original question was a pretty basic one and the discussion should stay there. Everyone has their own preference that works for them and takes into account stomach irritation, convenience, cost, and a dozen other variables in addition to those featured in clinical studies. Pick the one that works for you and understand that the workout is probably much more important as a determinant of cycling improvement than is the nutrition, as long as you generally are properly nourished.
Most studies are done on 1RM or close to 1RM efforts done to exhaustion. This is not what cycling is about. Further, they are short workouts. The authors of most of the studies acknowledge that the influence of insulin regulation in these studies is basically unknown, while that is studied much more extensively in cycling athletes and is viewed to be very important in controlling mitochondrial synthesis and energy management in trained cyclist. A number of the studies quoted merely look at protein ingestion followed by proteolytic peaks post-exercise and attempt to define anabolic windows (for or against). This is marginally relevant to bodybuilders, largely irrelevant to a semi-trained endurance cyclist. As experimental protocols they are narrowly defined so as to be good studies, but narrow definition limits their relevance to the sport at hand.
For a cyclist in an endurance event (such as a hard training ride), there are a wide variety of issues that need to be addressed. To restore the body to a basal state before the next workout one needs to address water and mineral depletion, oxidant consumption, waste removal, and so on. To ensure that musculature has recovered, one needs to cease proteolysis and have engaged in such glycogen repletion that the musculature is ready for another bout of endurance exercise. Plus there are various repair processes needed. Insulin and other hormonal feedback systems need to be readjusted to basal levels and responsiveness. There are various important neurological issues to be addressed so that the firing processes are equally functional the next day. Of course there are also basic issues about improving pulmonary and cardiac performance which are as important to a cyclist (but not necessarily to a bodybuilder) but have their own independent timeframes. And all of this comes about before we even begin to discuss improvement in strength or aerobic endurance.
In short, these studies look at one tiny aspect of the total picture. And they do so often for athletes whose needs are relatively incompatible, for the most part, with those of cyclists. And while some of them appear quite rigorous in their design, they are still often flawed and they typically attempt to draw conclusions that range far beyond the scope of their experimental protocol. When it comes to "anabolic windows," the best evidence suggests that you actually want to be ingesting protein before, during, and after a workout. The evidence on how long the anabolic window lasts post exercise is so contradictory that you can pick the citation of your choice to get a peak window, or even whether you are measuring a decline beginning immediately post-exercise, a unimodal peak, or something completely different. And none of this work addresses the matter with regards to variability among individual athletes -- the mean or modal data show one thing but the actual individual athlete data are very scattered.
The best conclusion from the literature is likely that careful general nutrition is the most important issue. Continuous nutrition before, during, and after an endurance event is critical. The evidence increasingly suggests that carb to protein swapping is less productive and carb loading before with protein loading after does not work as well as once thought. I don't want to get into a debate over every phrase in this or any post in this thread. I think the original question was a pretty basic one and the discussion should stay there. Everyone has their own preference that works for them and takes into account stomach irritation, convenience, cost, and a dozen other variables in addition to those featured in clinical studies. Pick the one that works for you and understand that the workout is probably much more important as a determinant of cycling improvement than is the nutrition, as long as you generally are properly nourished.
-
- Posts: 261
- Joined: Mon May 07, 2007 1:06 pm
- Location: UK
Brilliant write up 11.4, thanks. Healthy balanced diet and a CNP pro recover after a ride followed by a healthy meal for me.
"I could have done this job myself in five minutes, but as things turned out I had to spend two days trying to find out why it had taken someone else three weeks to do it wrong."
Thanks 11.4. I agree about the experimental protocols. Years of being a biochemist before becoming physician has made me very sceptical about most of these studies because the way the protocols are run. I know for myself I am so variable day to day that it would be really hard to compare one day to the next, no matter what the variable is. I don't mean to sound too critical of those running the experiments it is just that humans are hard things to run experiments on due to their damn free will and athletes are even worse because they are often hard headed and stubborn. Tell them to do something for an hour and they will do it for three and think you should be impressed.
It is good to get some general guidelines when it comes to pre, during and post ride nutrition but ultimately everyone needs to experiment with themselves. I have changed nutrition plans a lot over the years and just now generally know when I need to eat. Now that I am older and don't care as much and I am less discerning about what I eat (likely to very little detriment) and mostly eat food: cookies, rice cakes bananas etc. Gels and chews I usually only keep one or two for if I have screwed up and need a rescue or in a race if I just need quick nutrition. Of course I use gels I know won't upset my stomach.
More and more hydration appears to be best to drink when thirsty. Over hydration and hyponatremia during races is a surprisingly large problem and what you see in the most in the medical tent of Ironmans when the elements are agreeable. Waiting to eat till your hungry though doesn't work.
It is good to get some general guidelines when it comes to pre, during and post ride nutrition but ultimately everyone needs to experiment with themselves. I have changed nutrition plans a lot over the years and just now generally know when I need to eat. Now that I am older and don't care as much and I am less discerning about what I eat (likely to very little detriment) and mostly eat food: cookies, rice cakes bananas etc. Gels and chews I usually only keep one or two for if I have screwed up and need a rescue or in a race if I just need quick nutrition. Of course I use gels I know won't upset my stomach.
More and more hydration appears to be best to drink when thirsty. Over hydration and hyponatremia during races is a surprisingly large problem and what you see in the most in the medical tent of Ironmans when the elements are agreeable. Waiting to eat till your hungry though doesn't work.
-
- Posts: 1145
- Joined: Sat Dec 07, 2013 10:15 pm
LionelB wrote:Beer. Preferably cold.
Agree on beer. Especially after a long hot day's ride. Otherwise its plain water.
Colnago C-59 (Dura Ace)
Firefly(Ultegra)
Colnago C-64 disc(ultegra) with Bora 35 wheels
Firefly(Ultegra)
Colnago C-64 disc(ultegra) with Bora 35 wheels
If you can get hold of it, give Vitargo a try. I feel much better using it than other recovery drinks that often contain maltodextrin or other regular sugars.
Vitargo is a starch manufactured from barley, with very low osmolality which means it leaves the stomach rapidly. The studies done shows it leaves the stomach 80% faster than other sportdrinks (containing malto for example) and replenishes glycogen levels 70% faster. Sure a lot of companies make big claims but personally I really do feel better using Vitargo than other products.
I usually mix it with some protein or BCAAs and creatine and drink right away after parking the bike. It gets quite a bit thicker than malto and stuff just so you know, got a couple of friends who hate it because of that.
Other than that I truly believe food intake is key, but if a recovery drink helps just a little bit I personally think that it's worth it.
Vitargo is a starch manufactured from barley, with very low osmolality which means it leaves the stomach rapidly. The studies done shows it leaves the stomach 80% faster than other sportdrinks (containing malto for example) and replenishes glycogen levels 70% faster. Sure a lot of companies make big claims but personally I really do feel better using Vitargo than other products.
I usually mix it with some protein or BCAAs and creatine and drink right away after parking the bike. It gets quite a bit thicker than malto and stuff just so you know, got a couple of friends who hate it because of that.
Other than that I truly believe food intake is key, but if a recovery drink helps just a little bit I personally think that it's worth it.
-
- Posts: 408
- Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2012 3:05 am
would Vitargo be good while riding as well?
Absolutely, works great for me at least. Personally I somehow feel like my energy levels are a bit more even compared to other products, and also I'm less prone to get a little bit nauseous when pushing really hard as I can get with other drinks.
I don't know about availability in other markets than Sweden but as for drinks Vitargo themselves make one regular, one with electrolytes and one with caffeine + BCAAs. They also got gels and bars with Vitargo. Actually it's very popular here to use it for carb loading before races too.
I don't know about availability in other markets than Sweden but as for drinks Vitargo themselves make one regular, one with electrolytes and one with caffeine + BCAAs. They also got gels and bars with Vitargo. Actually it's very popular here to use it for carb loading before races too.
Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓ Broad Selection ✓ Worldwide Delivery ✓
www.starbike.com