Specific Time Interval Target Training

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Rick
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by Rick

Suppose you are a rider with a completely mediocre critical power curve across all time intervals: not terrible, but certainly not above average in any place on the curve (me).
But you want to increase your performance ability over a specific time interval: say 3 minutes, for example (it could be any time interval)

Would you target 3 minute intervals specifically ?
Or would you target shorter intervals, to be operating at higher power, with the hope of eventually extending the duration ?
Or target slightly longer intervals with the assumption that you are going at approximately the same power but gradually able to hold peak power longer.

Or some combination of both ?

Just a theoretical question. Is there an accepted answer that is demonstrated to work well for most people ?

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devinci
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by devinci

I would play arround the 3min mark, both below and above, and I would also manipulate other training variables like volume and intensity distribution

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Rick
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by Rick

Yes; thanks. I do play around with those things, but I am obviously not playing around "correctly". So I just wondered if there was an established protocol or if it is always sort of individually variable.

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devinci
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by devinci

I don't know of any protocol and yes, likely highly variable amng individuals.

I would suggest you track what has worked best for you in the past and work arround that with some degree of variation.

jamesbass
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by jamesbass

Specificity wins every time! By hitting the time interval exactly, you're stressing all the right physiological systems that limit you at that time interval.

That being said, 5 minute intervals are awesome at increasing capitalization of muscle, which also plays a big role during a 20 minute interval, so there is overlap to some extent.

Also, recovery times play a part. 30s all out, followed by a few minutes of recovery will help anaerobic sprint power, but only allow for 30s recovery, and after a few minutes it becomes an (excellent BTW) aerobic workout, as you can't replenish your anaerobic capacity quickly enough.

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

Personally I have started to ride every day. Monday to Saturday 1hr morning one hour evening. sundays a race or a long ride.
I do a mix of short 10 second sit down spinny sprints from about to about 150 rpm+, standup higher gear sprints for 30secs on a hill,
2 to 3 minute intervals on the hills we have around here, 5 minute hills just dont exist ~(unless you take it really slow or ride a slow heavy bike) but hard 5 minute and 20 intervals are doable. Some commute rides are 1 hour interval where I keep my peak outputs no higher than 550W but hold the best power I can on 2-3 minute hills without putting myself deep into the red. Many rides like todays are just at an easy pace holding CP on the hills this is how I am avoiding fatigue at present.

The mix of efforts seems to be helping without causing fatigue. so however often you ride. Do a mix of efforts to work your muscles and cardiovasular system in different ways. Otherwise you might end up improving the 2 to 20 minute power without improving elsewhere.

I am still a novice at this but what I am learning is a mix of efforts is useful.

drchull
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by drchull

What is the goal, fitness, weight loss, racing, town hall sprints and group rides. If it is anything but racing, eschew intervals and ride for fun. Choose where you want to go hard and go hard. Mix it up though. I ride with headphones and like doing intervals by songs or groups of songs for longer intervals. I find timed intervals I am often just counting the seconds and prefer it to be somewhat variable as racing and group riding is very variable in length of efforts. God help you if you get a seven or eight minute song comes up.

If you are looking at improving racing then taking the offseason and breaking it into sections to work on a specific area makes sense. Say you want to improve short efforts and sprinting. You will want to tailor your week to add more specificity to those types of workouts, not exclusively but more. These workouts will require more recovery. Book yourself at least 8 weeks to work on a specific area as it will likely take that long to see large gains.

Tapeworm and many others are much better at this type of thing than i am though, will defer to them for better specifics on training routines.

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

May I suggest a song for you then pink floyds last track of the obscured by clouds album. It's only 27mins long let us know how you get on.
Last edited by bm0p700f on Sun Oct 04, 2015 8:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Tapeworm
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by Tapeworm

^ I am a huge fan of pink floods work, though it always seemed they were copying Pink Floyd :lol:

Intervals are not "magic" and performing intervals of a certain duration will improve your output at that duration after a certain amount of time.

If the goal is to improve power for that duration *only* then usually work above and below that intensity will help yield gains in the long term. However if the intervals are only a part of a broader scope

For example, if looking at power for the pursuit on the track - approx 4-5mins in duration. Whilst you may perform some intervals in that duration, but comparatively there will be a LOT more work well below that, and some above.

If looking at 5min power for a road rider who has a particular climb that just happens to be that long in duration, for example, then some more focused work for that duration will improve that power output, especially if formed as an overall program.
"Physiology is all just propaganda and lies... all waiting to be disproven by the next study."
"I'm not a real doctor; But I am a real worm; I am an actual worm." - TMBG

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bigfatty
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by bigfatty

wow, I came here to post this exact question if I understand it correctly.
my situation is earlier this year I worked up to a goal of 300w (4.5w/kg) which of course I was happy reaching my goal.
This was using a set time of always 20 minutes and building up from 265w to 300w. To say the least it was not very exciting.
Now I want to raise the bar, quite substantially. 350w for 20 minutes. This is 5.4w/kg (T.Pinot holds 6.4w/kg for 20 minutes).
I can hold 370w for 5 minutes so I my idea is to to start at 350w for 5 minutes and extending (hopefully) 1 minute a week.
This might be more stimulating for me as it will just be more plain fun, for example, it could be on a short climb/attack, a break away from the group, taking the lead and pushing the group when doing the regular circuit or just going out and doing a specific set. the 20 minute scenario requires wilfully going to do battle for the 20 minute effort which can be all consuming not leaving much room for fun.

what do you think?

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Rick
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by Rick

I can hold 370w for 5 minutes so I my idea is to to start at 350w for 5 minutes and extending (hopefully) 1 minute a week.


This was the direction I was going with my reasoning also.
If I slog away at my 20 min. pace, it doesn't seem to really get me used to tolerating the stress any higher power level. I feel like I am just "going as fast as I can" for anything over about 5 minutes. I might actually be a little faster for the shorter intervals, and degrade to a lower power over the longer intervals, but I feel like I am just "going all out" during the interval, assuming I think I can complete the interval.
But If I were to use shorter intervals, in which I knew I could hit a significantly higher power, I could then just try to gradually extend the endurance of that stress a little longer.
If I started a 20 min. interval at the higher power level, I would simply know that I can't complete the full interval.

So this reasoning seems to "make sense". But I just wondered if there had been definitive studies and results on that type of protocol.

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bigfatty
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by bigfatty

i guess it is all called "progressive overload".
they use that term a lot in bodybuilding http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/goulet11.htm
I do not see our propsed statergy written of much in cycling and I would also like to see some content on it
I know there are some smart cookies in this training forum so hope to hear something soon

bottom line is if it is fun and working it will be better than not fun and working

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jamesbass
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by jamesbass

There is plenty written about this in cycling.

In power terms, there is the concept of TSS - training stress score, which aims to quantify a training load so you can measure & manipulate your overload accordingly. Look for this and there will be some more info out there.

I'd suggest requesting to join the Google "Wattage" list , which is the "go to" place for cycling power discussion.

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