Hill training on a stationary trainer

[dmulligan]

I find that trainer sessions are not helping me get any better at hills. I'm wondering if the new fangled motorised trainers would help.

I've been doing my winter training on a Cycleops Fluid² using Trainerroad. I find that this combination is working otherwise and I am definitely stronger in the spring when I train hard rather than half assed. However I just don't get the hill grind feeling from them. A recent GNC video might have some shed light on this. They found that some people put out power through more of the crank revolution than on flats. Others were the opposite, more power but during less of each revolution. I can lay down the same wattage for longer on the flat than while climbing. My muscles feel tired and the burn comes quicker on hills than on flats. Because of that I don't last as long at 90rpm and as soon as my cadence drops so does my power output.

Thanks,
David

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[kevhogaz]

I try to use the trainer, to get as close to climbing a hill as I can. I simulate the wattage I'd be putting down, and the cadence I'd be spinning, if I were really climbing. Nothing can take the place of literally climbing a mountain/hill, but if I can duplicate the wattage, and cadence as close as I can, it helps a little!

[Tapeworm]

Two words: inertial load.

When on the flat you have high inertial load.

On the hills: low inertial load.

Different trainers will emulate this differently. Plus side to trainers like the Wahoo et al is that the load can be varied on needs.

[TrevorDeRuise]

Yes, the best way to really emulate a hill is to have a trainer that will allow you to put out high power with low gears, like a Kickr, CT, or just about anything with ERG mode. However, that's not to say you can't improve your climbing with your current setup. The first thing I'd recommend doing is getting a higher wheel block to go under your front wheel to angle the bike up like you're on a climb. This change in position can actually play a pretty big role in power output on a climb. Next, higher intensity workouts are going develop strength and fitness, more so than pedaling technique which is really what this difference in power output from flats to climbs comes down to. Now riding very intense workouts every day is not recommended, if you're working through one of our training plans or building towards a goal, simply keep in mind that as you start to ramp up the intensity, you are getting stronger on both the climbs and the flats.

[Squint]

As the cestode notes, inertial load is all the difference between riding indoors, climbing, or on flat terrain. Only a few trainers claim to be able to simulate the inertia of outdoor riding and some of them almost certainly cannot actually do so. Reverse engineering one of the leading candidates is on my to do list. Then, and only then, will I believe it does what it claims.

Elevating the front wheel, high torque/low cadence is just the Camichael-esque cycling equivalent of broscience.

[dmulligan]

I've attempted to reply several times but I've realised that, until now, I've had nothing smart to say. While climbing hills I've thought about and totally get inertial load. My trainer offers less inertial load than a flat road or a slight uphill, and far greater than a hard climb. So it's something like a 3 or 4% grade.
I recently got on a Kickr and in ERG mode or in slope mode I found that it mimics one interesting aspect of hills. On my trainer as I grow tired my cadence drops and therefore it gets easier. On a 8%+ hill my cadence drops but it doesn't get any easier, depending on the grade it may just get harder. Since the Kickr ramps up the resistance as you slow your cadence it feels way more like a real hill to me than my fluid trainer ever has. Perhaps I need to harden up and not allow my cadence to drop on the trainer but so far I've not been able to do that. Maybe this winter
The Kickr is one seriously expensive machine and I would really like one but I don't need it. I have several things to really focus on this winter that I've only given lip service to before. They are: sleep and recovery, nutrition, and core strength/stability. I suspect i will see much better gains this winter as long as i improve on this three things along with starting on Trainerroad earlier this year. I don't need a Kickr for any of that. I think I've been trying to justify a nice new toy rather than solve a real problem.
Thanks!
David

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[jamesbass]

These guys claim to be able to replicate road feel better than any other rollers out there.
http://www.trutrainer.com/

Not tested them, but high speed with high gears and high tyre pressure on rollers definitely feels more realistic. You just have to get up to very high speeds before the proper resistance kicks in.

[ultyguy]

Two words: inertial load.

When on the flat you have high inertial load.

On the hills: low inertial load.

Different trainers will emulate this differently. Plus side to trainers like the Wahoo et al is that the load can be varied on needs.

Good article talking bout this
http://cyclingtips.com.au/2013/09/climb ... -affected/


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[Nefarious86]

I just do 6x5min @FTP drills at 60-50-40-40-50-60 rpm on the kickr to keep as much low leg speed ability possible it's not ideal but it helps.

[Squint]

Good article talking bout this
http://cyclingtips.com.au/2013/09/climb ... -affected/

It's good in that it actually correctly recognizes the differences between riding on flat terrain and climbing but it goes off the rails when it talks about fast and slow twitch fibers.

Fast and slow twitch fiber recruitment isn't dependent upon velocity but force.

Inertial load alters muscle (not fiber) recruitment due to changes in the pedaling torque profile.

The good news is that being good at climbing or TTing is trainable unlike what the article suggests. The bad news is that training on flat terrain doesn't translate 100% to climbing. Training indoors doesn't translate perfectly into outdoor performance and vice versa. That's why most people lose power when they shift from outdoor riding to indoor riding and again in the spring when they return to outdoor riding.