Strength Training

A light bike doesn't replace good fitness.

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KWalker
Posts: 5722
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Location: Bay Area

by KWalker

I've changed my tune recently on the subject in a few ways. Sky, Garmin, and a few other pro teams now have riders in the gym 2-4 days a week year round. 4 days a week being the off-season.

The problem is that gym work will never directly lead to a quantifiable improvement in wattage necessarily. From what I've gathered the benefits come from reduced central fatigue/neuromuscular fatigue, greater stability on the bike, and some believe improved CP system.

Unfortunately the details of their programs is all word of mouth really and without verification. In that regard all I've managed to gather is that bodyweight or light resistance work (bands, dumbells) is done during key race blocks with a cessation during peak races while traveling. For the most part they seem to focus on either lower rep pure strength work or higher rep supportive work and avoid the "middle range" as it is thought that there are many counterproductive adaptations from strength training induced hypertrophy including reductions in capillary density and mitochondrial density.

I think there are still cases where amateurs could benefit from strength training. I myself have a number of functional issues on the bike and off the bike that will improve from strength and conditioning work. Anecdotally several former domestic pros who are now coaches began their careers in a very traditional sense regarding training and by the end most if not all have incorporated strength work and reduced their volume slightly. There is evidence for it working for them. For my central fatigue and efficiency create problems that simple aerobic training will not solve. Add in years of erg/trainer riding and losing a lot of bodyweight and I have a lot of joint stability issues that seem to affect my ability to generate short duration power both overall and while fatigued.
Don't take me too seriously. The only person that doesn't hate Froome.
Gramz
Failed Custom Bike

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Dombi
Posts: 28
Joined: Fri May 01, 2015 4:49 pm

by Dombi

The last years i had the same problem with the bodyweight. I´d lost a lot of substance and muscles as a result of a ED. Thereby Strength Training is really necessary for me to build a useful Body for cycling. But i know the Strength Training will never really improving my riding skills and at the moment it prevents me a lot to get better. I´m searching for a way to perform both.
I´ve changed my goals. They are not longer in Powerlifting or general strength but rather in cycling.

Is there a good way to combine both? Some Programs? Wendler 531, Juggernaut Method...? Some Plyos?

Do you know the off season programs of the Teams? Maybe of their Sprinters?

Could you recommend a great Bike for me?

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Tapeworm
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Joined: Thu May 03, 2007 10:39 am

by Tapeworm

^ I'd defer to KW, given his background in lifting, however this is something along the lines of what I do/prescribe for clients:-

Day 1:
Warm up
Back squat (prefer low bar ATM), 2 reps, 5 sets. (85% 1RM)
Bulgarian Split squat, 5 reps, 3 sets (per leg). (30% of squat 1RM)
Romanian Deadlifts, 5 reps, 3 sets. (60% of DL 1RM)

Day 2:
Warm up
Lunge, 5 reps, 5 sets (per leg) (30% of squat 1RM)
Deadlift, 3 reps, 5 sets. (80% 1RM)
+ any supplemental work needed - imbalances, "core".

The loads are conservative, risk vs reward, always with the aim of endurance cycling not strength athlete

Plyometric can be worked in, but yet to see meaningful gains from this, better just to be done on the bike. There are other funky things that can be done like post-activation potentiation, Litvinov conversions etc, but these are best done under the watchful eye of an experienced coached, and not on an internet forum.

As for *exactly* what the pros do? I'm yet to see any real details. Always snippets of info, never the whole thing.

A great bike? Cervelo S5. Only the bestest, truly awesome people own one.
"Physiology is all just propaganda and lies... all waiting to be disproven by the next study."
"I'm not a real doctor; But I am a real worm; I am an actual worm." - TMBG

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Tinea Pedis
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by Tinea Pedis

boysa wrote:I'm thinking your friend is mathematically challenged.

As much as this dude is grammatically challenged.

Dombi wrote:Could you recommend a great Bike for me?

Hi. English probably isn't your first language - however as was pointed out, look in this section

viewforum.php?f=3

for road bike recommendations. Otherwise, lets stick to the topic of this thread. As I want to say I was part of the next Tour of Flanders winners training.

Dombi
Posts: 28
Joined: Fri May 01, 2015 4:49 pm

by Dombi

Tapeworm wrote:^ I'd defer to KW, given his background in lifting, however this is something along the lines of what I do/prescribe for clients:-

Day 1:
Warm up
Back squat (prefer low bar ATM), 2 reps, 5 sets. (85% 1RM)
Bulgarian Split squat, 5 reps, 3 sets (per leg). (30% of squat 1RM)
Romanian Deadlifts, 5 reps, 3 sets. (60% of DL 1RM)

Day 2:
Warm up
Lunge, 5 reps, 5 sets (per leg) (30% of squat 1RM)
Deadlift, 3 reps, 5 sets. (80% 1RM)
+ any supplemental work needed - imbalances, "core".

The loads are conservative, risk vs reward, always with the aim of endurance cycling not strength athlete

Plyometric can be worked in, but yet to see meaningful gains from this, better just to be done on the bike. There are other funky things that can be done like post-activation potentiation, Litvinov conversions etc, but these are best done under the watchful eye of an experienced coached, and not on an internet forum.

As for *exactly* what the pros do? I'm yet to see any real details. Always snippets of info, never the whole thing.

A great bike? Cervelo S5. Only the bestest, truly awesome people own one.



I´ll try the Program with some changes.

The S5 looks good. I´ll ride it for a test ride.
Last edited by Dombi on Wed May 06, 2015 2:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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devinci
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Location: Canada

by devinci

Lol

:doh:

KWalker
Posts: 5722
Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2009 8:30 pm
Location: Bay Area

by KWalker

Tapeworm wrote:^ I'd defer to KW, given his background in lifting, however this is something along the lines of what I do/prescribe for clients:-

Day 1:
Warm up
Back squat (prefer low bar ATM), 2 reps, 5 sets. (85% 1RM)
Bulgarian Split squat, 5 reps, 3 sets (per leg). (30% of squat 1RM)
Romanian Deadlifts, 5 reps, 3 sets. (60% of DL 1RM)

Day 2:
Warm up
Lunge, 5 reps, 5 sets (per leg) (30% of squat 1RM)
Deadlift, 3 reps, 5 sets. (80% 1RM)
+ any supplemental work needed - imbalances, "core".

The loads are conservative, risk vs reward, always with the aim of endurance cycling not strength athlete

Plyometric can be worked in, but yet to see meaningful gains from this, better just to be done on the bike. There are other funky things that can be done like post-activation potentiation, Litvinov conversions etc, but these are best done under the watchful eye of an experienced coached, and not on an internet forum.

As for *exactly* what the pros do? I'm yet to see any real details. Always snippets of info, never the whole thing.

A great bike? Cervelo S5. Only the bestest, truly awesome people own one.


I think that the only thing you're lacking in the program rec is more the idea of periodization of work on and off the bike.

So the way I see it any strength work should proceed bike work by 1 block or a few weeks:

Gym/Bike
NM coordination (Circuits, usually of higher reps, with some basic strength movements)/Shorter efforts in the 10-20s range and basic anaerobic endurance (FTP level efforts and microburst type stuff)
Explosive strength/Same bike stuff as above
Maximal strength/Change the 10-20s bike work to focus more on the 5-10s range and maximal pedaling velocity
Mixed strength/explosiveness/Change the 5-10s work to work that uses a big gear. Hunter Allen's "Tractor Pulls" where you start in a huge gear at 60RPM and do a max effort sprint until you hit 90 RPM would be a good example.
Maintenance coordination/strength work/Standard build period workouts on the bike with 1 ride a week that incorporates maintenance of the work above.

Workout examples:

Coordination workout: 15-20 reps of Reverse lunges and glute bridges back-to-back with 60s rest. Step ups and maximal effort RKC planks same work:rest structure. Pistol squats and calve raises, same work:rest structure. Lastly some core movements. Try to ride the bike that day in any capacity and bonus points for even so much as spinning in zone 1 for a bit after. The idea is to develop basic NM coordination and recruitment or perhaps keep these patterns active during an intense block of racing and training.

Explosive Strength:
Warm up and do a bodyweight plyometric movement that focuses on concentric force i.e. box jumps or depth jumps.
Hip hinge movement such as front squat, RDL, back squat, and good morning. I'd do the first two over the last two to avoid loading the spine much. Focus more on bar speed than weight probably ending up around 75%-80% for sets of 2-3 with 30s rest. I'd aim for 8-10 sets adjusting weight for bar velocity as well as a heavy load.
Secondary weighted unilateral movement around 15-20 reps. Think Bulgarian split squats, lunges, or pistol squats.
Supportive circuit of something like face pulls, scapular push ups, hip thrusts, and calve raises.
Core work as necessary, probably hanging leg raises and some kind of pike movment.

Maximal strength:
Same idea as above but less of a focus on bar velocity and more on maximal strength. I personally always use the RTS method for finding weights, so I'd aim for a top set at a high RPE of 8.5-9 and then do 2-3 down sets at around 95% of that weight.
Same workout otherwise.

As for frequency I'd do 2 of these gym workouts a week and time permitting perhaps add a third circuit day at most. I don't think volume nor frequency need to be super high, but it would take some experimentation regarding recovery and whatnot. Again, its a stab in the dark as to what teams are currently doing as there isn't much information sharing in cycling. From what I've been told it tends to be sessions similar to these 2-3 times a week and the other days are more oriented towards basic circuits focused on stability and coordination (think bodyweight movements, gymnastic holds, and yoga).

All in all its really simple to program. I'd just want to do it so that whatever I do on the bike builds off the adaptations I got in the gym. I would also periodize it so the explosive and maximal work came in the "off-season" and/or early base period although those that focus on shorter events, track enduro stuff, or crits might do it in their early build as well.
Don't take me too seriously. The only person that doesn't hate Froome.
Gramz
Failed Custom Bike

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Tapeworm
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by Tapeworm

KWalker wrote:..I think that the only thing you're lacking in the program rec is more the idea of periodization of work on and off the bike.

So the way I see it any strength work should proceed bike work by 1 block or a few weeks...


^ An important point!


Another "tip for young players" is not to underestimate the explosive/plyometric work. In an "acute physical load" sense (actual load on connective tissue etc) and by a training load sense (amount of fatigue, neural, muscular etc).

I have some seen some *hideous* attempts at various O-lifts, box jumps, one-legged-kettlebell-thingy-with-a-vest-and-breathingmask... whatever. Injury-city for a lot of folk who either where taught badly, execute it badly or attempt to do too much, too soon. Without the requisite strength/conditioning/skills to do so it is best avoided till you do. Again, an S&C coach could be a worthwhile pursuit.
"Physiology is all just propaganda and lies... all waiting to be disproven by the next study."
"I'm not a real doctor; But I am a real worm; I am an actual worm." - TMBG

KWalker
Posts: 5722
Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2009 8:30 pm
Location: Bay Area

by KWalker

That's why I almost never recommend olympic lifts or complex plyos. It took me close to 6 months of working with two U.S. Olympic Team members to learn how to do the olympic lifts good enough to actually use significant load. Moreover, there is an upper body component that I don't think is necessary for cycling. Using some basic barbell movements is more than enough. Since the feet remain planted with even unilateral movements I favor them over olympic lifts because one can alter the stance and knee tracking to far different than what is used on the bike.

As for plyos I really only like them for potentiation and coordination. They're basically eccentric only, which has a higher transfer to cycling, but since the load is fairly light you are relying on being very fresh so you can get maximal recruitment through high velocity. Given that a cyclist's legs are probably never fresh enough I kind of see them as a great warm-up movement before doing a barbell movement.
Don't take me too seriously. The only person that doesn't hate Froome.
Gramz
Failed Custom Bike

Dombi
Posts: 28
Joined: Fri May 01, 2015 4:49 pm

by Dombi

Thank you both very much.

You´re right. My problem is more the periodization than the exercises or the Program.

Your advices and Program helps me a lot to know what to do.

Dombi
Posts: 28
Joined: Fri May 01, 2015 4:49 pm

by Dombi

KWalker wrote:
Tapeworm wrote:^ I'd defer to KW, given his background in lifting, however this is something along the lines of what I do/prescribe for clients:-

Day 1:
Warm up
Back squat (prefer low bar ATM), 2 reps, 5 sets. (85% 1RM)
Bulgarian Split squat, 5 reps, 3 sets (per leg). (30% of squat 1RM)
Romanian Deadlifts, 5 reps, 3 sets. (60% of DL 1RM)

Day 2:
Warm up
Lunge, 5 reps, 5 sets (per leg) (30% of squat 1RM)
Deadlift, 3 reps, 5 sets. (80% 1RM)
+ any supplemental work needed - imbalances, "core".

The loads are conservative, risk vs reward, always with the aim of endurance cycling not strength athlete

Plyometric can be worked in, but yet to see meaningful gains from this, better just to be done on the bike. There are other funky things that can be done like post-activation potentiation, Litvinov conversions etc, but these are best done under the watchful eye of an experienced coached, and not on an internet forum.

As for *exactly* what the pros do? I'm yet to see any real details. Always snippets of info, never the whole thing.

A great bike? Cervelo S5. Only the bestest, truly awesome people own one.


I think that the only thing you're lacking in the program rec is more the idea of periodization of work on and off the bike.

So the way I see it any strength work should proceed bike work by 1 block or a few weeks:

Gym/Bike
NM coordination (Circuits, usually of higher reps, with some basic strength movements)/Shorter efforts in the 10-20s range and basic anaerobic endurance (FTP level efforts and microburst type stuff)
Explosive strength/Same bike stuff as above
Maximal strength/Change the 10-20s bike work to focus more on the 5-10s range and maximal pedaling velocity
Mixed strength/explosiveness/Change the 5-10s work to work that uses a big gear. Hunter Allen's "Tractor Pulls" where you start in a huge gear at 60RPM and do a max effort sprint until you hit 90 RPM would be a good example.
Maintenance coordination/strength work/Standard build period workouts on the bike with 1 ride a week that incorporates maintenance of the work above.

Workout examples:

Coordination workout: 15-20 reps of Reverse lunges and glute bridges back-to-back with 60s rest. Step ups and maximal effort RKC planks same work:rest structure. Pistol squats and calve raises, same work:rest structure. Lastly some core movements. Try to ride the bike that day in any capacity and bonus points for even so much as spinning in zone 1 for a bit after. The idea is to develop basic NM coordination and recruitment or perhaps keep these patterns active during an intense block of racing and training.

Explosive Strength:
Warm up and do a bodyweight plyometric movement that focuses on concentric force i.e. box jumps or depth jumps.
Hip hinge movement such as front squat, RDL, back squat, and good morning. I'd do the first two over the last two to avoid loading the spine much. Focus more on bar speed than weight probably ending up around 75%-80% for sets of 2-3 with 30s rest. I'd aim for 8-10 sets adjusting weight for bar velocity as well as a heavy load.
Secondary weighted unilateral movement around 15-20 reps. Think Bulgarian split squats, lunges, or pistol squats.
Supportive circuit of something like face pulls, scapular push ups, hip thrusts, and calve raises.
Core work as necessary, probably hanging leg raises and some kind of pike movment.

Maximal strength:
Same idea as above but less of a focus on bar velocity and more on maximal strength. I personally always use the RTS method for finding weights, so I'd aim for a top set at a high RPE of 8.5-9 and then do 2-3 down sets at around 95% of that weight.
Same workout otherwise.

As for frequency I'd do 2 of these gym workouts a week and time permitting perhaps add a third circuit day at most. I don't think volume nor frequency need to be super high, but it would take some experimentation regarding recovery and whatnot. Again, its a stab in the dark as to what teams are currently doing as there isn't much information sharing in cycling. From what I've been told it tends to be sessions similar to these 2-3 times a week and the other days are more oriented towards basic circuits focused on stability and coordination (think bodyweight movements, gymnastic holds, and yoga).

All in all its really simple to program. I'd just want to do it so that whatever I do on the bike builds off the adaptations I got in the gym. I would also periodize it so the explosive and maximal work came in the "off-season" and/or early base period although those that focus on shorter events, track enduro stuff, or crits might do it in their early build as well.




That's a very nice program.

How often and how long would you do each phase? And would you do different workouts in a week or always the same? Like

Monday: Coordination
Wednesday: Explosive
Friday: Maximal

or every day the same? How did you do it? Could you give me an a sample Template?

KWalker
Posts: 5722
Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2009 8:30 pm
Location: Bay Area

by KWalker

Optimizing strength training for running and cycling endurance performance: A review.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23914932

Cyclists' improvement of pedaling efficacy and performance after heavy strength training.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23197584
"E+S enhanced cycling performance by 7%, which was more than in E (P = .02). Performance was determined as average power output in a 5-min all-out trial performed subsequent to 185 min of submaximal cycling"

Isometric strength training lowers the O2 cost of cycling during moderate-intensity exercise.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22526253
"Isometric strength training rapidly (i.e., after 1 week) decreases the O(2) cost of cycling during moderate-intensity exercise, whereas it does not affect the amplitude of the slow component of the V'O(2) on-kinetics during heavy-intensity exercise."

Strength training improves cycling efficiency in master endurance athletes.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21638070

Effects of resistance training on endurance capacity and muscle fiber composition in young top-level cyclists.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21362056
"Short-term (5-min) endurance performance increased (3-4%) after SE and E (P<0.05), whereas 45-min endurance capacity increased (8%) with SE only (P<0.05). Type IIA fiber proportions increased and type IIX proportions decreased after SE training (P<0.05) with no change in E. Muscle fiber area and capillarization remained unchanged. In conclusion, concurrent strength/endurance training in young elite competitive cyclists led to an improved 45-min time-trial endurance capacity that was accompanied by an increased proportion of type IIA muscle fibers and gains in MVC and RFD, while capillarization remained unaffected."
Don't take me too seriously. The only person that doesn't hate Froome.
Gramz
Failed Custom Bike

KWalker
Posts: 5722
Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2009 8:30 pm
Location: Bay Area

by KWalker

I would run each phase for a 3-4 week block probably, but it would really depend on a lot of variables. I'd want to see progress both on the bike and in the gym before changing to a different phase. With maximal strength work you tend to see gains in movements stall unless you vary the rep range or variant.
Don't take me too seriously. The only person that doesn't hate Froome.
Gramz
Failed Custom Bike

Dombi
Posts: 28
Joined: Fri May 01, 2015 4:49 pm

by Dombi

Thanks for the advices. Do you know what the pros does for the core and the upper Body? What should i do?
I thought on Bench, OHP and some Rows.

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Tapeworm
Posts: 2585
Joined: Thu May 03, 2007 10:39 am

by Tapeworm

Again, I'll defer to KW, but the list of exercises above already work the core and upper body pretty well by themselves. You really do NOT want any excess upper body mass.
"Physiology is all just propaganda and lies... all waiting to be disproven by the next study."
"I'm not a real doctor; But I am a real worm; I am an actual worm." - TMBG

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

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