For those that don't have a power meter

[53x12]

I guess the reason I started this thread was that I was just curious to hear opinions regarding why some don't see a power meter as being that important or necessary for training.

I will add from my experience, that training with power has been the best decision I have made. I have noticed the largest gains in my fitness and performance post power training. Not to mention, when on a tight time line and not a lot of time to train, being able to specifically train a workout towards what I need to work on and have the visual data to guide me and later go back and make sure I did what I wanted to do, is very helpful.

Heart rate is nice and all, but we know about all the errors that presents. Not the most reliable factor. Same with training on "exertion" or how one feels. Not always the best indicator. I like power as it is very objective and clear cut. I can show my data to someone else that understands power and they can see exactly what kind of a workout I had and what I need to work on. But I guess I take my training somewhat seriously and want to be as efficient as possible with my training and extract as much as I can from my body physically.

I think your definition of affordable might differ to many others. Mine included.

Very true. But then again, what we consider an affordable road bike, a Joe Six Pack would consider an outrageous price and point out how you could purchase a car or motorcycle for that price. Interesting how perspective changes based on perceived "value."

I realize all of us have different budgets and capabilities money wise, but I really do mean that power meters have dropped in price significantly with all the new players (it is no longer the $2500-3000 for an SRM). You can get a very nice PT hub for a good price now. Not to mention the lightly used market. Training with power now is significantly cheaper than 7-10 years ago.

I'm in an interesting situation. The problem I have is that Stages, Pioneer and any other crank arm based system won't work on my road bike (Madone) due to the Shimano brake. I could have used the Bontrager brake, but I prefer the stopping power of the Shimano. I can't justify the cost of the SRM or Quarq.

I could go with the Vectors or another pedal based PM, but I would also have to switch the pedals on my bike to Look compatible cleats (I currently use Shimano pedals, although the situation would be the same with Speedplays).

My only remaining option is a Powertap, which would be good, because I can take the opportunity to rebuild and strengthen my 303, and maybe get it to stop flexing as much as it does with the current Zipp hubs. Then again, I get back to the prior situation: what do I do about my TT bike? What about my mountain bike or CX bike?

For that reason, I go with the Powercal. It might not be the most accurate power measuring device, but at the same time, I can also take the same unit from one bike to the other, and have it measure power across all platforms. Admittedly, it isn't the greatest power measuring device. There are times where I clock 2400W, which is obviously a misread, but at the same time, it gives me ballpark numbers, which I can use to determine what I'm actually doing.

Have you thought about Brim Brothers ZONE shoe based power meter? That might be an option worth looking into.

http://www.brimbrothers.com

[Rick]

I have a power meter, and I get addicted to watching it.
I also do structured intervals. But sometimes I just get too discouraged because I am not making any progress.
Then, I start speculating that the power meter is really just too rigid of a "taskmaster". So I deliberately just train by heart rate for a while, and it seems like I actually ride better because I am not aware of how pathetic my power numbers are so I actually push harder and more consistently knowing what my heart is capable of.
In other words, my power level capability vary from day to day, and over a ride, making it discouraging; but I can always try to hit high heart rates and 'keep spinning", and that is not so discouraging.

Not valid in any scientific sense, but that is just my feeling. And I know some awesome riders who actually do well in races that don't ever use a PM or HRM, just always going by feel.

So the electronic feedback is interesting, but I am not convinced it is necessary unless you have some pretty advanced analysis going along with it. Usually after a training ride I just want to eat and sleep. I rarely really "analyze" data.
I think it was Carlos Sastre who quit using any electronics for similar expressed reasons.

[mattr]

I guess the reason I started this thread was that I was just curious to hear opinions regarding why some don't see a power meter as being that important or necessary for training.

I will add from my experience, that training with power has been the best decision I have made. I have noticed the largest gains in my fitness and performance post power training. Not to mention, when on a tight time line and not a lot of time to train, being able to specifically train a workout towards what I need to work on and have the visual data to guide me and later go back and make sure I did what I wanted to do, is very helpful.

so I'm guessing you are right at the pointy end of your local race scene.

[CulBaire]

I have a power meter, but trained for years without one. The main reason for getting one is that I wanted to get a little more serious about riding and racing, in addition to having less time due to an addition to the family. A power meter provides a measure of performance gains that are trackable over intervals, days, weeks, months years, etc… While it has been of great benefit to myself, I don’t believe it’s a necessity for everyone and to be totally honest after riding with a PM for a year I find I use it for collection of data rather than pacing, RPE for me is a fairly good measure of the effort.

I still use HR on the mountain bike, but I would be lying if I said I use it for pacing, again RPE is king here.


I think with the more affordable PM’s coming out, and available on the market at the moment PM’s will become more common place.

[Tinea Pedis]

so I'm guessing you are right at the pointy end of your local race scene.

How do his results bear any reference? He's improving.

"I have noticed the largest gains in my fitness and performance post power training."

Regardless of whether that's resulted in race success or not, the improvement is the win. Not the race results. Especially as anyone who has raced knows, there is more to racing than simply who has the best power figures.

[mattr]

Except that for the vast majority of cyclists (even racing cyclists) vast improvements can be made by simply thinking about your training, and doing it properly, rather than just going out and battering yourself.

And thinking is free.

This wholesale shift towards an attitude where training without a PM is junk miles is quite possibly why those with lower power figures (or no idea what their power figures actually are) sometimes make better racers.

[Tapeworm]

Perhaps the thing I hear most from those who have started to use power coming from HR and/or RPE is that previously their "hard" wasn't that hard, and their "easy" wasn't easy enough. RPE is good an all, but it needs to be quantified.

Some points about training with power, that I hear regularly, and piss me off to no end:-
1) You can't race to numbers.
Well outside of a TT, no, you can't (maybe slightly). That doesn't mean the data cannot be used post-race to help shape training.

2) I like to race on feel.
Tape up the watts display, customise the screen. Collect data, analyse later.

3) Power meters are too expensive.
Often said by someone on a $10k Pinarello. No, they are not. Whether you want to outlay the money or not is fine, but they are not *relatively* expensive, at all. I don't want to use a Garmin. Nothing to do with cost. Just preference. Leave it at that.

4) Useless - unless you're a pro/Cat 1/A grade, training 20hrs a week etc etc
Useful for anyone who wants to know what their data is. Anecdotally, I have noticed that some don't like the "Ego Check" offered up by a power and would rather think they are good rather than actually knowing. Ignorance is bliss. Ironically those who *can* do 20hrs a week probably "need" it less than a "time crunched amateur". (note: I hate the term "time crunched".)

5) Useless unless you know how to use it properly.
Duh. Learn.

[xena]

First it adds weight
I like to ride on instinct. I do push hard "really hard" and most of my mates use them and I can drop most of my mates.
Days when I am not feeling good I know not to push, It possibly in my case could lead to overtraining. I have over trained before and it's horrible, it takes months to recover. I never used one on a road bike so happy to concede I could be wrong.

[mattr]

1) a good number of riders use a PM in lieu of actually knowing how to race, they also have more ready made excuses for poor results.
2) yup
3) a good coach, or even coaching book, is cheaper. And will (for many people) give better results, more experience and a good grounding on what training actually is. Then they will be in a better position when they get a PM.
I've never had a 10 grand bike, I wouldn't want one, diminishing returns and all that. My 17 year old custom built steel is still my go to bike. And I've ridden lots of shiny carbon.
4) No one said useless, just not necessarily good vfm. There are much cheaper, easier and more enjoyable (and educational) ways to go from getting dropped in a 4th cat crit to getting a top ten. Or cracking the hour mark for a 25. Or getting a bronze medal in a sportive.
5) How many of the hundreds of thousands who bought HRMs bothered to learn how to use them? Not many. (Weeeee, look how high my heart rate is, I must be fit)

It doesn't piss me off when people buy them tho, that's their look out. But when almost the first bit of training advice given to a newcomer looking to do a bit of racing is "get a PM, everything else is a waste of time" that makes me wince.

Anecdotally, that would have been my wife's next stage in training tools, a PM. She'd gone from being dropped on the club's easy Saturday ride, to getting fairly regular top tens in national series events, against the best in the country, based on sensibly structured training for 10-12 hours a week. Over the space of three years.

[Tapeworm]

^ Hypothetical - if you could have a PM for free would you use it?

[mattr]

Free, yes. Free stuff is always good.

But at my current level of fitness, and ability to recover (Inadequate and terrible), more free time would be the best training tool available. I currently have about 3 hours a week *total* cycling time. So about 2.5 hours on the bike, once a week. People tell me it'll get better when they get older.

[zirxo]

I use a power meter but I also use my years of experience of riding on feel when I train and especially when I race.
The power meter is great for seeing progress and to get that last bit out of the intervals but it's not something everyone needs. Especially not if you're new to the sport. Then it's just better to get out and ride and maybe hire a coach.

[Tapeworm]

@mattr 3hrs? Seriously? I really haven't come across anyone with that little time to train. Even guys in war-zones log more than that.

[mattr]

Yes, seriously. I could probably rearrange some stuff and get an extra hour. But something else is going to give, and likely cause issues further down the line. And seeing as cycling is something i'd like to enjoy. I'll leave it as it is.

[Dalai]

As a Masters aged athlete I also find it beneficial to be able to focus my training on quality over quantity. Can't smash myself day in day out nor have the time to even if I could!

I also find the PM is beneficial to:

*track training stress to make sure I am not overtraining or undertraining.
*focus my training on weaknesses after reviewing training files.
*focus my training for specific events i.e. using power files from previous IPs for training / pacing.
*useful pacing in road TTs
*be competitive self coached by researching training /journal articles and further learning which I enjoy doing.

Also mattr remember training in only just one facet of power meter use. With an accurate PM you can do many other things such as aero testing to name one... After visiting a windtunnel back in 2008, I can use field testing with the PM to continue to refine my position and equipment which needs to be replaced everytime the UCI decides to change the rules!