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PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2015 2:36 pm 
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Location: Vienna Austria
Tapeworm wrote:
A power meter allows the the measurement and recording of what is ultimately the "end product" of all this training stuff.


I disagree (slightly), winning races should be the end product, and there are people who make a lot of power but still don't win. If you are only training to increase your power output, it's true though.


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Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2015 2:36 pm 


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 12:25 am 
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Location: Geelong
Marin wrote:
winning races should be the end product\

From page two

Tinea Pedis wrote:
{USERNAME} wrote:
so I'm guessing you are right at the pointy end of your local race scene.


How do his results bear any reference? He's improving.

"I have noticed the largest gains in my fitness and performance post power training."

Regardless of whether that's resulted in race success or not, the improvement is the win. Not the race results. Especially as anyone who has raced knows, there is more to racing than simply who has the best power figures.

viewtopic.php?p=1131833#p1131833

Racing isn't about the dude with the highest FTP winning (except in TTs). But it damn well helps. Point is, and is seemingly lost/ignored, that a power meter helps drill down and improve that aspect of it. No one is claiming its a magic bullet to coming 1st. But as has been pointed out throughout the thread, it's considerably more advantageous to have one than not. I found a set of wheels I race on are nearly 1km/h slower than another set I have. Not possible without a power meter.


Your call. But as with the aero bikes debate, the more people who want to believe there's no benefit the more I gain come race day. Especially given how fast I know some guys could really be if they trained with power/knew how to actually use the one they have.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 7:26 am 
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Marin wrote:
Tapeworm wrote:
A power meter allows the the measurement and recording of what is ultimately the "end product" of all this training stuff.


I disagree (slightly), winning races should be the end product, and there are people who make a lot of power but still don't win. If you are only training to increase your power output, it's true though.


By your own point you validate mine.

Training, as discussed here, can only improve power output. How do you train "winning"? Those with a higher power output tip the odds in their favour in races but as we know plenty who put out less still win. If you don't win in a given race, but exceed all previous limits, does that mean the training has been a waste? Does it mean we shouldn't strive to improve power output?

*Race craft* is an entirely difference aspect, and I haven't seen any training program which can really improve this apart from... racing.

A lot.

And how are we able to race a lot? By improving fitness....

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PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2015 11:02 am 
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^ and here's an article which better articulates this:- http://autmillennium.org.nz/athlete-dev ... op-players

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2015 4:10 pm 
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Posts: 7
I´m thinking about getting a powermeter for next season.

I have been riding for many years and always used a HRM but I bought a new bike (Emonda) this spring and didnt transfer the computer because I was going to by a new one and the Duotrap S. But the Duotrap was out of stock at my LBS so I decided to wait since I like shopping from them. Now 4 moths later a I still have no computer and I love it!
I log the rides on strava via the phone but it´s in the pocket so I don´t get any numbers on the road.
Just riding has been awsome and I have made som progress.

But still, I would like a Powermeter and I don´t question it´s merits! I think it can help me improve my training and results.

But I would recomend everyone to go on some rides now and then without the computer and just enjoy the ride and let your body do the pacing.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2015 7:16 pm 
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Feel pretty lost without a HRM. There have been times (a fair while ago) when it hasn't worked (the display) and my perceived
effort didn't match what my HRM recorded when i check it after (i had ridden harder than i thought).

I have found that i am getting significantly better at knowing the "Perceived Power" i need to put out to get my HR to where i want it (after the lag)
Wouldn't (and don't) bother with any serious Anaerobic Endurance / Sprint Intervals as especially the former a PM really helps with and would be frustrating without.

I can understand people not wanting to use one for a variety of reasons. But i don't race, and don't plan to - what is important to be from cycling is that i enjoy feeling like i am making progress, and i enjoy the structure of training - both of these are my major motivators. From 3/4 rides per week I will normally have at least 2 or 3 "structured training" and another what some might call a spirited solitary ride AKA fun.

Looking to get a power meter either end of this season (make winter miles a bit more interesting), or beginning of next.
I enjoy the company of numbers.

While i am sure ride hard/ ride gentle works. Training smarter (if you are suited to the regime) clearly produces better results (in my opinion, despite all the trials i don't believe a multiple identical twin between subjects design long term experiment has ever been done - and the thought is ridiculous). If i was SERIOUS about training, I cannot imagine making the decision to not use a PM (other than a financial reason)


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 6:28 pm 
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Location: On the bike
https://youtu.be/k9eJSnpL5jY

This video by TrainerRoad is a great intro tutorial into riding with power and the benefit it has for those trying to improve their fitness (even if you don't race nor plan to race). Very good overview that goes over all the key points and gives basic insight into how to use it to get stronger on the bike.

Here are a few slides that really bring the point home and show the benefit power has over Rider Perceived Efford (RPE) and heart rate. Neither come close to what power can offer in terms of objective data + ability to give you a significantly more accurate idea of calorie use.

Image

Image

Image

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 10:39 pm 
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Posts: 165
i rather ride a $1000 bike with a power meter than a $10000 one without one.

If you are buying any lightweight parts before a PM and are serious about training, racing, climbing or just getting faster you are fooling yourself.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 3:33 pm 
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waltthizzney wrote:
i rather ride a $1000 bike with a power meter than a $10000 one without one.

If you are buying any lightweight parts before a PM and are serious about training, racing, climbing or just getting faster you are fooling yourself.


Agreed. I simply won't ride without one. My powermeter battery died mid workout a few months ago and I just went home.

I kind of laugh at that in hindsight, but I'd do it again tomorrow if it happened again. I'd rather train with anything and a powermeter than anything without.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 4:52 am 
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53x12 wrote:
Those of you that don't train with a pm, may I ask why? Is it that you don't believe it will help? Do you think they are too expensive (lots of affordable options available now)? Some other reason. Just curious to hear why some don't train with power.



I think it's obvious.

1) Most people don't actually "train" nor race. They ride. They may ride a lot. They may have raced many years ago so they have bike skills. They do group rides and reach a decent level of fitness by the end of the summer. But they aren't really training.

2) A PM was expensive up until a few years ago. Even today, it looks like the cheapest option is an extra $400 but most guys wouldn't want to be caught dead with a 105 crank so $500-800 is a budget left side PM. A more premium spider based option is still around $1000-1500+.

3) I think the actual usage (other than a wattage readout on their garmin), analyzing data, and getting the most out of it can be intimidating.

I think this type of rider wants to improve but the cost in both money and time is steep. And maybe this kind of rider already knows that if they put more time into training (maybe weights and trainer in the winter, yoga/core work, and a weekly interval session) they would improvement greatly. But if they already aren't maximizing what they are doing then adding a power meter to mix probably isn't going to help.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 5:40 am 
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AJS914 wrote:
53x12 wrote:
Those of you that don't train with a pm, may I ask why? Is it that you don't believe it will help? Do you think they are too expensive (lots of affordable options available now)? Some other reason. Just curious to hear why some don't train with power.



I think it's obvious.

1) Most people don't actually "train" nor race. They ride. They may ride a lot. They may have raced many years ago so they have bike skills. They do group rides and reach a decent level of fitness by the end of the summer. But they aren't really training.

2) A PM was expensive up until a few years ago. Even today, it looks like the cheapest option is an extra $400 but most guys wouldn't want to be caught dead with a 105 crank so $500-800 is a budget left side PM. A more premium spider based option is still around $1000-1500+.

3) I think the actual usage (other than a wattage readout on their garmin), analyzing data, and getting the most out of it can be intimidating.

I think this type of rider wants to improve but the cost in both money and time is steep. And maybe this kind of rider already knows that if they put more time into training (maybe weights and trainer in the winter, yoga/core work, and a weekly interval session) they would improvement greatly. But if they already aren't maximizing what they are doing then adding a power meter to mix probably isn't going to help.


^ That is what we call a weekend rider. Not someone serious about training or racing. They are the one the likes the idea of being a roadie, but isn't fully committed to the sport or what is required to physically get to their peak. For some people being into road biking is all about show and showing off your $10k bike at the local cafe. For others, they would rather be fast on their bike.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 5:53 am 
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Yeah, but most people on this board are weekend riders by your definition.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 6:31 am 
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Posts: 335
AJS914 wrote:
53x12 wrote:
Those of you that don't train with a pm, may I ask why? Is it that you don't believe it will help? Do you think they are too expensive (lots of affordable options available now)? Some other reason. Just curious to hear why some don't train with power.



I think it's obvious.

1) Most people don't actually "train" nor race. They ride. They may ride a lot. They may have raced many years ago so they have bike skills. They do group rides and reach a decent level of fitness by the end of the summer. But they aren't really training.

2) A PM was expensive up until a few years ago. Even today, it looks like the cheapest option is an extra $400 but most guys wouldn't want to be caught dead with a 105 crank so $500-800 is a budget left side PM. A more premium spider based option is still around $1000-1500+.

3) I think the actual usage (other than a wattage readout on their garmin), analyzing data, and getting the most out of it can be intimidating.

I think this type of rider wants to improve but the cost in both money and time is steep. And maybe this kind of rider already knows that if they put more time into training (maybe weights and trainer in the winter, yoga/core work, and a weekly interval session) they would improvement greatly. But if they already aren't maximizing what they are doing then adding a power meter to mix probably isn't going to help.


^THIS


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 1:47 pm 
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Posts: 104
AJS914 wrote:
2) A PM was expensive up until a few years ago. Even today, it looks like the cheapest option is an extra $400 but most guys wouldn't want to be caught dead with a 105 crank so $500-800 is a budget left side PM. A more premium spider based option is still around $1000-1500+.


:lol:

I have a PT C1 on a 105 10sp crank, and 11s 105 shifters and brakes. Ah, the horror!

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 10:53 pm 
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jlok wrote:
AJS914 wrote:
53x12 wrote:
Those of you that don't train with a pm, may I ask why? Is it that you don't believe it will help? Do you think they are too expensive (lots of affordable options available now)? Some other reason. Just curious to hear why some don't train with power.



I think it's obvious.

1) Most people don't actually "train" nor race. They ride. They may ride a lot. They may have raced many years ago so they have bike skills. They do group rides and reach a decent level of fitness by the end of the summer. But they aren't really training.

2) A PM was expensive up until a few years ago. Even today, it looks like the cheapest option is an extra $400 but most guys wouldn't want to be caught dead with a 105 crank so $500-800 is a budget left side PM. A more premium spider based option is still around $1000-1500+.

3) I think the actual usage (other than a wattage readout on their garmin), analyzing data, and getting the most out of it can be intimidating.

I think this type of rider wants to improve but the cost in both money and time is steep. And maybe this kind of rider already knows that if they put more time into training (maybe weights and trainer in the winter, yoga/core work, and a weekly interval session) they would improvement greatly. But if they already aren't maximizing what they are doing then adding a power meter to mix probably isn't going to help.


^THIS


This what? That there are posers in our sport that care more about image than actual fitness and being faster?

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"Marginal gains are the only gains when all that's left to gain is in the margins."


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Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 10:53 pm 


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