TrainerRoad training plan not getting HR high enough?

[VTBike]

So i'm relatively new to training, and i'm pretty much winging it. My specific goals are to be able to rock the long climbs out here in the NW, build general power, and stay fit. I do some cross racing, but it's not really factoring in here. Obviously, like most people - I train because I want to generally be faster, all the time!

So i've been doing Trainer Road for the past 2 winters with a wahoo kickr, and I really like that it's a no brainer. This season I decided to start in Nov at the beginning with the base training, after coming off of riding quite a bit outdoors over the summer. Now i'm dong the high volume sustained climb training plan.. about 5 weeks in. All of the workouts are pretty much at threshold (90%) or below, which keeps my HR in the 130-150 range. I figured there was a method to this madness. When i just did my mid way through FTP re-assessment (20 min test), the results weren't as I'd hoped (no real increase) -- but it wasn't the number that is having me question it, it was the fact that it was the first "ride" in ages that had me pinned to a high HR (165 for me) for a long period of time over that 20 min. Particularly, it was super uncomfortable because I haven't done it in ages. So i'm wondering why a training plan doesn't have occasional rides that really push me like that? When I'm doing a 20 min+ climb outdoors, I usually keep my HR around 155-160 so that I have enough sustained energy to make it over all the climbs and back home.

As for real-world results, I am getting them - which is awesome. On my outdoor weekend rides, i'm getting constant PR's on almost every ride. So something good is indeed happening... just not sure of the methodology behind it.

Would love to hear from anyone that's familiar with the TR plans.

Thanks!

[nathanong87]

because an 'ftp 20 minute test' is hard?..... and u said it yourself, the other workouts or outside riding are of lower intensity?

u are asking why the training plan doesn't have u doing ftp 20 minute test intervals more often?....

[TrevorDeRuise]

Great question... So when you test for FTP, you essentially ride over your FTP for the test interval(s). This extremely high yet short (shorter than an hour) effort is then reduced in order to emulate what your actual "hour power" is, AKA your FTP. So the reason you are seeing such a high HR value during your FTP test is because your are over your threshold. Riding over threshold for long periods of time is not a big focus of the "Build" plan that you are currently following, but that's not to say you're not getting a great workout. The truth is, you can't ride over threshold for long periods of time, day after day. You'll burn out...

Stay with the Build plan, see where it takes you. Then, if you are looking to target your above threshold zones, chose a Specialty plan next, like Climbing Road Race. Having the Build plan in your legs will help you get even more out of the efforts you'll find in this Specialty plan.

-Trevor from TrainerRoad

[VTBike]

Awesome, thanks for the reply Trevor! I super appreciate a rep being on this site.

It makes sense. And it's a little of just 'believing'. This morning the workout was Mont Gosford, which is 3x15 minute intervals at 70-80% FTP (287 for me). My HR didn't get over 145.. It's super hard for me to ride for an hour and fifteen min at that HR and not want to just go harder. Again, my outdoor rides are typically 30-40 miles, with a routine 1000 ft of elevation per 10 miles (3000-4000 ft of climbing per ride). I'm typically at 155 for most of those rides, but do get to 165 or 170 if I feel like sprinting up a climb.

I feel like i'd do better at an FTP test, or any 20 min time trial if I some of my training plan was above threshold.. but perhaps that just isn't the point. To Nathanong87 - no, i'm not asking why my training rides don't have 20 min test intervals, but i'm asking why a build plan really has no above threshold work. I feel like i'm missing something! But I am going to just stay the course, as I mentioned i'm getting PR's often on my outdoor rides.. and I'm still going above threshold on those rides, so I get my fill.

Thanks again

[raneeyafatima]

Where this takes you is that most people have pretty close to the same ball joint to ball joint distances, and they tend to be in the range of 37-39 cm. The Italians messed everyone up with an amateurish fitting guide in their CONI manual back in the 1950s, and the whole world adopted it. The Japanese keirin manual actually copied the illustrations and translated the text so literally that the Japanese even has a bit of Italian phraseology to it. Anyway, it means that wide bars were basically an idea promoted by some Italians who didn't really get it right.

[VTBike]

Ahh.. just as I suspected Raneeyafatima. I'll look to my ball joints and bar width to solve this case.

[Tapeworm]

You need to stop watching HR so much and look more at watts. The heart is a responder to effort, not a dictator. If your power increases by 20 watts but your HR has gone down 10bpm, or up 10bpm - is that a good thing, or a bad thing? (Hint: same answer for both).

As for efficacy of pre-paid cookie-cutter plans, you get what you pay for. They work until they don't.

Here is the actual definition of FTP:-

"FTP is the highest power that a rider can maintain in a quasi-steady state without fatiguing for approximately 1 hour.

When power exceeds FTP, fatigue will occur much sooner, whereas power just below FTP can be maintained considerably longer".

Alex Simmons' blog is an excellent resource for this stuff:- http://alex-cycle.blogspot.com.au/2008/ ... s.html?m=1

[racersir]

You need to stop watching HR so much and look more at watts. The heart is a responder to effort, not a dictator. If your power increases by 20 watts but your HR has gone down 10bpm, or up 10bpm - is that a good thing, or a bad thing? (Hint: same answer for both).

As for efficacy of pre-paid cookie-cutter plans, you get what you pay for. They work until they don't.

Here is the actual definition of FTP:-

"FTP is the highest power that a rider can maintain in a quasi-steady state without fatiguing for approximately 1 hour.

When power exceeds FTP, fatigue will occur much sooner, whereas power just below FTP can be maintained considerably longer".

Alex Simmons' blog is an excellent resource for this stuff:- http://alex-cycle.blogspot.com.au/2008/ ... s.html?m=1

Totally agree. I don't look at the heart rate, I just focus on keeping the watts near the target