Weight Weenies
* FAQ    * Search    * Trending Topics
* Login   * Register
HOME Listings Blog NEW Galleries NEW FAQ Contact About
It is currently Tue May 31, 2016 1:30 am
Recently the board software has been updated and there are some known bugs/failures:
- Avatars are currently not being displayed ✔ FIXED
- Tapatalk connection is currently broken ✔ FIXED

If you find more errors please post it here: http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=139062


All times are UTC+01:00





Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 11 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 6:03 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 4:01 pm
Posts: 639
Location: Downtown Los Angeles, CA
So, I've noticed that the gap between my ability to put out sustained power on the flat and on a climb has grown significantly. I weigh 69kg and can do about 365 watts for 10 minutes and 330 for 20 minutes but have trouble holding 305 watts for over ten minutes on the flat.

Most of my riding has been centered around climbing, but I'd like to start doing crits again so would like to get my flat power on par with my climbing power. Is it as simple as substituting the hills with flat efforts to retrain my muscles?

Currently, I'm doing uphill intervals 2x per week due to time constraints (I work 12 hours a day) and Saturday is a 40 mi high speed flat group ride plus 20mi "warmup/cool down" and Sunday is an uphill/rollers 40 min devishly hard group ride (10min at full effort then uphill rollers for the next 30 minutes).

I'd like to keep the two weekend group rides, since I enjoy them, but can probably bump my Weekday riding to 3x (1.25 hours at most including warmup/cooldown).

_________________
Litespeed Siena: 6.21kg (retired)

Litespeed Xicon: 5.76kg (retired)

Cervelo R5ca: 5.09kg


Top
   
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 8:19 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 2:50 pm
Posts: 435
Location: Istanbul, Turkey
I have the reverse. 330 watt FTP on the flat vs. 300ish on the climbs.(estimated, no PM)
I have kind of sourced it down to lack of core strength, core workouts brought climbing FTP from 290ish to today's level.
I neglected climbs for a long time because I was training for a crit, that must have contributed. Now I have as much hill training as I have flats.
I would suggest substituting one of the hillclimb interval days with a flat interval day. The group ride may be too easy for you to improve.
My two cents.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

_________________
SHUT UP LEGS
2015 Giant Propel Advanced
2013 KTM Strada mod. GOT IT BACK!
2011 Pinarello Dogma 60.1(loaner)
2011 Scott SUB 45(sold)
ITU Aeronautical Eng.


Top
   
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 9:14 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2011 8:08 am
Posts: 2258
Location: Pedal Square
efeballi: I'm not convinced about the "core strength" suspicion. If you need lots of upper body effort for climbing, I would reckon your sitting position might be less than optimal, and you are out of balance. Up to ~10% of incline the sitting/balance should be relatively neutral.

Then there's specificity, namely cadence. If your preferred cadence on the flat is, say, 90rpm, and you don't have the gearing to ride in that range on the climbs, you might lose power, and also get the feeling of big "core effort". The old lore that real men don't use low gears is nonsense. Ride your best cadence.

That's not to say a certain amount of torso strength wouldn't be advisable, helpful, and generally healthy.

_________________
Bikes: Raw Ti, 650b flatbar CX


Top
   
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 10:19 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 14, 2009 6:08 am
Posts: 8171
Location: Geelong
efeballi wrote:
I have the reverse. 330 watt FTP on the flat vs. 300ish on the climbs.(estimated, no PM)

Have you started with actually getting a powermeter? Might help appreciate a real world difference.


OP - I'd certainly start with some more specific training (read: training more on the flats) and see what results in. I'd bet there is a specificity component in this discrepancy.

_________________
http://www.nicksquillari.com.au


Top
   
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 10:42 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 2:50 pm
Posts: 435
Location: Istanbul, Turkey
HillRPete: you are correct, position is another issue. I am a spinner and I rarely go below 90 rpm on a climb, yet I feel it difficult to stabilize myself on the bike while climbing.

Tinea Pedis: I currently don't have the monies for a power meter. Stages Ultegra 6800 is definitely in the list though. I use Strava and BikeCalculator estimates for power, I know they are not quite accurate.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

_________________
SHUT UP LEGS
2015 Giant Propel Advanced
2013 KTM Strada mod. GOT IT BACK!
2011 Pinarello Dogma 60.1(loaner)
2011 Scott SUB 45(sold)
ITU Aeronautical Eng.


Top
   
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 11:17 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 14, 2009 6:08 am
Posts: 8171
Location: Geelong
Not even remotely. A Stages will be a great investment, compared to those.

_________________
http://www.nicksquillari.com.au


Top
   
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 12:40 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 9:43 pm
Posts: 3036
Location: Canada
I think you answered your own question, i.e. you've been doing a lot of climbing training. Specificity rules, even when it comes to such narrow things as riding the flat VS climb. I personnaly can put out about the same power, whatever the terrain.


Top
   
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 6:18 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 4:01 pm
Posts: 639
Location: Downtown Los Angeles, CA
Here's the article that prompted me to post this question:

http://cyclingtips.com.au/2013/09/climb ... -affected/

It centers around the idea that the lower kinetic energy of climbing results in more slow twitch (relative) muscle being used than the "topping off" of high kinetic energy flat TT style riding (favors a higher blend of fast twitch).

efeballi: The Saturday group ride is a large 50-100 person group ride, so as long as I'm diligent, I can do a variety of efforts in the ride (e.g. 1 min "intervals" on the front at 400-500w is no problem or sitting a few riders back and riding at threshold).


I'm not used to doing intervals on the flat, with the idea of specificity in mind, should I focus on seated intervals?

_________________
Litespeed Siena: 6.21kg (retired)

Litespeed Xicon: 5.76kg (retired)

Cervelo R5ca: 5.09kg


Top
   
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 10:50 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2012 9:58 am
Posts: 392
RyanH wrote:
http://cyclingtips.com.au/2013/09/climb ... -affected/

It centers around the idea that the lower kinetic energy of climbing results in more slow twitch (relative) muscle being used than the "topping off" of high kinetic energy flat TT style riding (favors a higher blend of fast twitch).


this article was posted somewhere that i read (wattage list maybe?) and there was some disagreement with the hypothesis. i don't know who to believe, just that it shouldn't necessarily be taken as gospel.

that said, devinci is right - specificity, specificity and above all, specificity. if you want your "flat" ftp to be closer to your climbing ftp spend more time on the flats. demands are similar enough on the trainer and motorpacing too if you can find someone to ride for you.


Top
   
PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 11:01 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2007 12:49 pm
Posts: 1590
Location: Near Horgen, Switzerland
Get the power meter, find a flat road and ride at your chosen pain level, sorry, power level. Then go ride a couple of hours a constant power level. My experience is that the pm will discipline you to start easier and finish rides at much harder than your perceived exertion tells you. Then do the same with intervals on the flat. This will quickly build you into a stronger rider, both mentally and physically.


Top
   
PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2014 6:06 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2007 9:28 pm
Posts: 1138
I agree that your flat riding is lacking- I am not sure that it holds you back in a crit though.
What type of rider are you? You say that you have no problem with repeated 400-500 watts efforts.
For crits it is more about that repeated ability, positioning, and ability to go deep in the last 5 laps.
That said, ability to hold power on flats is indicative of increased fitness. Maybe skip group rides and try to work on it in the off-season?


Top
   
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 11 posts ] 

   Similar Topics   Author   Replies   Views   Last post 
There are no new unread posts for this topic. Climbing wheels

[ Go to page: 1 2 3 ]

in Road

964Cup

42

2321

Mon May 30, 2016 11:28 pm

kgibbo1868 View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Intermittent rattle when climbing

[ Go to page: 1 2 ]

in Road

mogwaiboi

18

503

Sun Jan 17, 2016 1:04 am

wingguy View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Need options on climbing bike

[ Go to page: 1 2 ]

in Road

addictR1

20

1320

Mon Oct 05, 2015 6:40 pm

NYCPrynne View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. 165mm cranksets for hill climbing

in Road

fixiedave

12

962

Fri Nov 06, 2015 7:16 pm

DCnoJ View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. 23mm vs 25mm tire for climbing

in Everything wheels

warsteiner

12

1241

Thu Dec 03, 2015 2:33 pm

fromtrektocolnago View the latest post


All times are UTC+01:00


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider] and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Limited