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PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 7:01 am 
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So is it a 3 day training block?


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 3:32 pm 
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No if you read the first post I tried to lay it out clear but its a 4 week front loaded training block.
First week five days of intervals 2nd-4th week are 4 easy days and 1 interval day each week. Yesterday was a rest day I need 2 more interval days thus week. Which may be hard as we have a big storm here in socal and I may have to take the c59 out on its first wet ride.


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Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 3:32 pm 


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 5:50 pm 
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Location: on trail
I'm interested to see how this works out for you. I think this approach makes sense. Overload / overreach with the block, then it is basically recovering and maintaining while you body adapts to the block.

Can I ask how you came up with the 150 hr for the endurance or easier rides?

The reason I ask is I used to use the Joe Friel HR zones for years, I finally now use a poor man's power method to train and it turns out, the Friel zones are WAY OFF for me and I need to do endurance or Zone 2 at much lower HR to stay in Zone 2 power.

I used to do Friel Zone 2 being 81% to 89% of LTHR so 138 - 151 hr (based on a LT of 170hr). Lots of times, specially on the trainer, it was difficult to be in that range for long periods of time. No kidding, it was Tempo pace. And no wonder when I did a "recovery" ride in the low 130's, that it still felt like work...

I switched to follower the Coggan Zones and am much lower HR to stay in Zone 2 for Power. As it turns out, long endurance pace now actually feels like it probably should have. Now I am around 120 - 130 HR for zone 2 HR when at Zone 2 Power.

The reason I mention all this is because, the entire idea behind your approach is the Polarized aspect to the training. So if your long easy rides are too hard (and into Zone 3 or Tempo), you might not see the benefits and be able to perform you hard efforts hard enough.

Good luck with this.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 11:37 pm 
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I came up with the 150 based on the percentage of mhr outlined in that study above. That is the upper limit though 150 really if try to keep my heart rate more at 130-135 for the easy rides. To be honest I don't plane on worrying about it to much ill just put in easy miles.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 7:46 am 
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Well it's been raining in socal the last couple days so kinda messing my routine up. I needed to get my workout in so went to the gym today and did the intervals on a spin bike then did a spin class so got great workout.

Day 4
5x6 min intervals
1-232 watts
2-241 watts
3- 235 watts
4 238 watts
5- 229 watts


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 10:34 pm 
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Last day of the first week of HIT. Looking forward to the easy riding the next few weeks. My legs felt tired I really was cracking on the 5th interval real tight legs. Time to recover.
Hill climb intervals 5x6mn
1st interval 240 watts sitting
2nd interval 267 watts standing
3rd interval 218 watts sitting
4th interval 259 watts standing
5th interval 214 watts sitting


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 7:38 pm 
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So how are you progressing after a week of easy Bantamben? Did the HIIT block leave you trashed?

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 6:30 am 
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Nah I was good I actually prefer the interval rides compared to the easy rides I got so busy though I haven't put nm by easy rides I'm gonna test FTP and try again


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 4:36 pm 
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Location: Bay Area
I think you are missing a big point in that you do not have to choose intervals or volume- you can have both with smart programming.

My high level opinion is that consistency trumps all else. If it does not add stress to do so I would rather see someone go with the 200mi/week option and follow a general polarized prescription. The increase in consistent volume will drive many of the low level adaptations that form the basis of efficient energy systems and it is a lot more conservative to ride more, but easier, than try to increase stress/optimization until it is just shy of a breaking point. I have seen plenty of riders crack on 10hr a week plans that had a ton of moderately intense work too frequently, but very few crack on 15hr a week plans where they limited their intensity to around 10%-15% of their total riding (in min) and did it in the form of L4/L5/L6 work.

Of course, if your goal is simply to ride a fast 20km TT you can get by with less, but virtually every good national level pro or masters TT champ I have ever met trains with significant volume and increases specificity towards the target event. Hell, top level pursuit riders still do full road seasons before their specific prep and lots of high level pros only do specific prep right before target TT events. Not that we are all pros, but again its about consistency over time.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 8:23 am 
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Bantamben, how did you feel in a single HIIT in 2nd or 3rd week? Did you feel like much easier than ones in 1st week? or even more harder because too many easy days between?


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 1:33 pm 
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Back when I was doing marathon races I only averaged around 15hrs of training a week. I sometimes could keep up with guys that would do well over 20hrs a week. They were very consistent, and did top 10 every week. I sometimes did top 10, but mostly top 50. If you train smart, and choose your races wisely, then sometimes you will be able to keep up.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 3:32 am 
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I will chime in on this thread now, as I have some recent experience in working with decreased volume due to the birth of my little one about a month ago. I was doing approx. 350km (218mi) to 400km (250mi) per week from November last year until mid-March, after the birth of the little on riding dropped quite dramatically to about 220kms (137mi) per week. The decrease in volume, and the increase in very focussed work completed on the trainer has resulted in a number of PB’s on local climbs (1min to 5min) between late Feb and now, additional speed during our usual fast bunch rides, and additional speed on the mountain bike.

The key for it all has been keeping the sessions tightly focussed, but also mixing it up a bit and ensuring a good ratio of lower end easy stuff vs the hard stuff. For me using the trainer is the best for the intensity stuff due to the consistency, no rest, no freewheeling, etc... I also aim to do the easier volume on the road / mtb each week, it may only be 1 to 3 hours once or twice a week but it all helps. Generally speaking only about 20% of my riding time is spent at Z4/Z5/Z6.

KWalker does bring up some valid points; with some creative programming you can squeeze in extra volume, even if it’s a recovery ride to / from work or something it will have some benefit. Like a guitar string one can only wind up the tension so much before it snaps; a higher volume program will naturally allow for more lower intensity riding which will encourage the low level adaptions, and recovery to take place.

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PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2014 10:00 pm 
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Agree with KWalker and a few others here. There are plenty of benefits to be gained by HIIT, but you are missing out on a few other key benefits by ignoring the longer/easier stuff. I think it comes down to what you are training for. If you are doing crits and shorter circuit races, I believe you can train effectively within the constraint of 100 mpw. However, I don't think it is likely that one would perform well in a multi-day stage race with that as your base.

Like others here, I recently had a newborn, so I am lucky if I can get 100 mpw at this point. My mileage is HIIT in my commute to and from work and then one longer ride on the weekend. I think this will keep my base up enough to ramp up the mileage later this summer to peak for some bigger races, so enjoying the riding when I can get it in and not stressing about the total mileage.


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PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 5:21 am 
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Bantamben wrote:
Just curious I ride with friends that are some of the faster guys in my local area. They seem to ride 150-200 miles a week. I can only see myself riding about a 100 miles a week. Is it possible with smart training to improve much compared to those doing more miles. Has anyone had personal experience making big gains on a training program doing less than a 100 miles a week?
How far are your races / or rides? For long races - 90 miles - you need more miles / week. For 30 mile race/rides - 100 can do it. Weights (more time) can also help a lot.


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Posted: Sat May 17, 2014 5:21 am 


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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2014 2:29 am 
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Yeah I don't race I'm much too slow for that. My friends race a little they are more gifted but also they train more which is tough for me. Problem with me is I am a low handicap golfer and play golf tournaments. That is what I'm good at. So it is hard to put cycling first although I enjoy it. So I have to kinda fit it in. I'm just looking to get the most bang for the buck in training.

I have a power meter my friends don't. They don't realize how much stronger they are. I max put at about 275-290 on a 5 minute climb. That's flat out all I got resting at the top. On our group rides they routinely ride 300-350 up short 2-7mn climbs and then are waiting for me resting. So a lot of times I'll skip some of the climbs get ahead of them so they don't get the rest. But even on the flats I'll be trying to hold a wheel at 250-300 watts and I can only do that a couple minutes. So I drop off, They looks back like they don't get it like I need to try harder.

Cycling is tough when there are gaps between guys power outputs.


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