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PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 7:54 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jul 20, 2013 6:11 pm
Posts: 309
I just picked up that little blue sensor myself… too bad it's worst then the bulkier one. I have the garmin ant+ unit.. was hoping to use that new blue one to keep in simple and save some grams :)


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Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 7:54 pm 


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 11:46 pm 
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spdntrxi wrote:
I just picked up that little blue sensor myself… too bad it's worst then the bulkier one. I have the garmin ant+ unit.. was hoping to use that new blue one to keep in simple and save some grams :)


Don't write it off yet. I expect a software update that improves pairing. And it's so much cleaner (and lighter) than a magnet-driven model. I'll bet that every magnet is going to disappear from cadence-sensing systems within a year. Accelerometer chips are so much smarter, and probably cheaper too.

I do understand that Wahoo is coming out with a complete new set of sensors this spring. Everything will be ANT+/BT4.0, so you can use one set of sensors for Garmin, Wahoo, or whatever. If rev 1 isn't perfect, rev 2 will fix any shortcomings.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 2:29 am 
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^^^ yeah I don't understand why everything can't be ant+/BT… seems like Wahoo is getting there stuff together. I've been mostly happy with there stuff so far.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 3:55 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2009 1:36 pm
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spdntrxi wrote:
jan erik wrote:
I have posted a request to the support.
Last night I did a 90 minutes training. During that session I did 3 spinndowns. Kickr was getting heavier after each spinndown and giving me higher numbers.
What is the "normal" spinndown figure anyone?


since 400w is the target cal value.. your spin down should be close to 400w Last one I did was 386w.


Ive got the calibration app and the new calculated value for tempslope implemented .I did another spinndown after that which shoved 693. I will do the testing tonight to see if this is getting better
But if it is like you are saying that the spinndownfigure is equal to watt mine is still too high!


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 11:01 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 4:33 am
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jan erik wrote:
spdntrxi wrote:
jan erik wrote:
I have posted a request to the support.
Last night I did a 90 minutes training. During that session I did 3 spinndowns. Kickr was getting heavier after each spinndown and giving me higher numbers.
What is the "normal" spinndown figure anyone?


since 400w is the target cal value.. your spin down should be close to 400w Last one I did was 386w.


Ive got the calibration app and the new calculated value for tempslope implemented .I did another spinndown after that which shoved 693. I will do the testing tonight to see if this is getting better
But if it is like you are saying that the spinndownfigure is equal to watt mine is still too high!



I don't see why the spin down figure has to be equal to watts. It seems it should be conceptually equivalent to the slope calculation on an SRM.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 2:13 am 
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I'm just saying the spin down offset should be near 400.. I've had two kickr's now and when they are working properly.. both spin down offsets number where in the high 380-390 range. (maybe his is different??) When they were not working my spin down numbers where 700-800. When you set the Dpot numbers in the calibration app.. the target is 400w (according to tech support) for my kickr the dpot number is 28.

When I talked with TS they had me set the set/Dpot and then adjust kg/tick or (set slope) I did not mess with the set temp slope at all.
They had me started with 0.003398 for my set slope.

Jan, what did the TS tell you to put in for set temp slope ? Curious…..


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 6:02 am 
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Joined: Sat Feb 15, 2014 5:25 pm
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I also have a Kickr and have been getting some inconsistent numbers (watts,mph and rpm) and my Spindown appears to be high (offset=576), but very consistent. I'm running with Blue SC for cadance and Kickr for power and speed. I also have the Blue HR and use the RFLKT+. I have been running 2 - 3 tests per day in which I ride for 5 minutes in the SIM mode with slope and wind set to 0 and bike type=road bike. I ride in the big front gear (53) and the 5th from the largest on the rear sprocket (Kickr). I try and ride as steady as I can at 180 watts (about 73/74 rpm). Nothing magic about these, but easy to make several test rides. I then do a Spindown after each test. It would be interesting to see how other rider's numbers will compare with the Spindown offset number? My 'good' test numbers are approximately: 17.9 mph avg/180 watts avg/73 rpm avg spindown offset=576. I suspect that the variables related to the offset will be MPH and/or watts (if the cadance is kept at 73/74).


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 5:40 pm 
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I'd be interested to see exactly how the Kickr reads wattage. On an SRM, the slope can be all over the place from one unit to the next. I still don't believe the spin down would even deliver a number directly equivalent to wattage -- the way it works seems to suggest it's a slope calculation. I've ridden on two Kickrs with an SRM on my bike and with wattage measurements within 1.2% of the SRM on one Kickr and 0.8% on the other, I had a spin down of 655 on one Kickr and 450 on the second. Go figure.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 7:01 pm 
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You may be correct 11.4 in that the Kickr is closely aligned to what power meters are showing and that may have little to do with the variance on 'the offset' that people are seeing. If others ride the same 'SIM' test that I'm doing and see the same results with different offsets that may further show there may not be a relationship between watts and offset?


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 12:56 am 
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yeah could be right ? Who knows… I've had 2 units.. one got messed up somehow about 2 months into use.. spin down always near 400.. then 800+ when bad. Then my exchanged unit was mis-calibrated from the factory according to TS.. spin down in the 700's. Now that it is working my spin down are again near 400.

I can't really compare it to anything but feel on the road… where I can short of hit a known slope and speed and cadence and remember what my power tap is reading at that moment. Thinking about picking up a stages PM for the wife's bike… then I can compare.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 1:02 am 
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Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 4:33 am
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I've got 3 Kickrs available, all new, and all match within 1.4% of each other and with two SRMs and a Vector. The only issue seems to be that there are minor differences in accuracy in different gears -- you get about a 10 watt difference at 200 watts in the erg setting between doing so in a 34x14 and 50x14. This is to be expected and due to differences in internal resistance in the system, and simply means you do a quick 15-second spin down calibration. Just don't go shifting up and down and all over the place and expect to be within 10 watts all the time because your bike has that much difference in system resistance, regardless of the Kickr.

Check out a couple good threads on the Wattage forum on the whole subject of how the Kickr wattage is calculated. The dorks (I love them, I'm one of them, but they are still dorks) have confirmed that the spin down is a simple slope and intercept calculation, exactly like on a SRM. And they show how you can get the intercept and thereby run comparison calculations among different systems. Definitely worth a read.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 3:19 am 
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thanks for the tips... I will have to go read an dork out...got a link?


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 4:35 am 
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Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 4:33 am
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spdntrxi wrote:
thanks for the tips... I will have to go read an dork out...got a link?


Be careful. It's very addictive when it's mid-winter. This is the real home for quants in training. Forget all the BS at analyticcycling.com. This is hard core with a bunch of serious exercise physiologists and chemists at work.

Just sign up for a G-mail account, and then click on groups and pick "Wattage". You'll be able to read; to post, you'll have to get approved by a moderator, but it isn't a big issue.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 12:12 pm 
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Posts: 22
I got my second unit now as the first one would not compensate for temp regardless of temp slope. I had the impression that the Temp Slope value had to be calculated. As I did 3 spinndowns my guess is that it was based on that. CS also said that in most cases it was not needed as compensation was mechanically implemented

Doing a spinndown on the new one it says 730 and is very hard.
Recalibrated to 393 with Dop so it is possible to paddle on
Output is stable on this one so no temp calibration needed(IE several spinndowns shows same value)
Temp (when unit is "cold")is high though ,it says 26 degres Celsius but actual temp is more close to 15
This unit is a behaves a bit different. If I reduce cadence in fixed wattage my pulse is going down indicating that wattage is dropping. That was opposit in the faulty one

But if slope is out I really dont know what to put inn


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Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 12:12 pm 


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 4:08 am 
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Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2012 5:28 am
Posts: 209
Am I suppose to be able to use my Garmin HR monitor and built in Giant Ant+ cadence sensor with the Wahoo app?


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