Winter/Off Season Training - Intensity

[A e o l u s]

Ok, im looking for some advice my training currently is as follows:
Monday - 1hr 30mins, steady 150bpm <
Tuesday - 2hrs 160-165bpm
Wednesday - 3hrs, 1hr 45mins @ 175bpm
Thursday - rest day
Friday - 45mins (rollers) 150bpm <
Saturday - 4hrs 165-175bpm
Sunday - 3hrs 30mins 165bpm<

Max HR 198bpm
Resting HR 48bpm

Total - 14hrs 45mins

The questions are:
- Should intensity be included in an off-season training programme?
- If not, what should be done instead? If so is there enough intensity?
- Is there enough training per week?

Notes:
I am 16years old, first year junior this year, main goals for next year are short time trials (40km, 25miles max) and road races ( 100-150km, 60miles - 80miles)

[rockymtnway]

You will get differing opinions on this one and I'm not the best person to tell you who is right and who is wrong. Actually, I don't think anybody is the right person to do that except you.

My sports physiologist, Neal Henderson, from the Boulder Center for Sports Medicine prescribed the following for the winter/off-season:
10% zone 1
50-70% zone 2
20-30% zone 3
0-10% zone 4-5

Zones were established based on watts and/or HR relative to Lactate Threshold. His explanation was that an emphesis on sub LT time trains the aerobic system to burn fat as a fuel and encourage other adaptations in the aerobic system such as capillary development. I do see weaknesses in not maintaining some anaerobic work, such as not keeping lactate reducing enzyme production high in the body, but I'm no expert, I trust Neal, and I've already increased my wattage by about 12 watts since November 1, so I can't complain about the results.

I think at your age you need to listen to a lot of different opinions, try a few things in a scientific manner (look at results while on one program, switch programs and look at results, then evaluate what works best for you as an individual) and make informed decisions. What you do now will impact your racing and health well into the future. Be smart, don't burn out or overtrain, and keep your passion for the sport and you'll do well. As a part of that, early in your program (December & January) spend some real time cross training for up to 50% of your training hours just to bring back your passion for the bike. For me that means time in the gym, swimming, running, hiking, and cross country skiing. Just don't let yourself get burned out before spring training season even begins. You may regret it the rest of the season or worse yet, bail on the sport entirely. You should take enough time off the bike to be eager to get back on.

[RTW]

[peterpen]

The questions are:
- Should intensity be included in an off-season training programme?
- If not, what should be done instead? If so is there enough intensity?
- Is there enough training per week?

- Yes.
- Hard to say without knowing what your LT (or FT or MSS) is. And I'd only be comparing it to what my trainer has me doing.
- Seems like plenty - especially for someone your age.

I think rockymtnway is right on with his advice, even if my trainer (Max Testa at UC Davis) has me doing a totally different program than what Neal Henderson advocates.

-Browse around, check out all the different approaches. Maybe try some out, but whatever it is, give it time to work.
-Unless you're winning every race you enter, remember that riding a bike probably shouldn't be your main priority. Do life, do school - definitely do girls.
- Find a team. Racing w/a team introduces an entire different element that can be very rewarding.
-Most of all keep it fun. I'm pretty serious about my training, but that's because it's fun (if that makes any sense.) I sure don't get paid to do it, so if training stops being fun I'm definitely doing something wrong.

[CulBaire]

Ok, im looking for some advice my training currently is as follows:
Monday - 1hr 30mins, steady 150bpm <
Tuesday - 2hrs 160-165bpm
Wednesday - 3hrs, 1hr 45mins @ 175bpm
Thursday - rest day
Friday - 45mins (rollers) 150bpm <
Saturday - 4hrs 165-175bpm
Sunday - 3hrs 30mins 165bpm<

Max HR 198bpm
Resting HR 48bpm

Total - 14hrs 45mins

The questions are:
- Should intensity be included in an off-season training programme?
- If not, what should be done instead? If so is there enough intensity?
- Is there enough training per week?

Notes:
I am 16years old, first year junior this year, main goals for next year are short time trials (40km, 25miles max) and road races ( 100-150km, 60miles - 80miles)

I'm no roadie by any means- infact I hate sitting on the roadie doing my training miles- although I am beginning to like it alot more as I see progress. You say this is off season training? How is your training structured? And what specificaly are you working on?

Generally duing the off season you will have a Base Period- working on base fitness, whether this should be low intencity or at threshold is debateable among the WW members. Personally I do alot of long slow miles, as I am a solo endurance racer.

Following Base, there will be assorted build periods again different methods training are debateable.

- Should intensity be included in an off-season training programme?

- If it is early in the off season, and you have a good 3 to 5 months to play with before racing starts again- I would recomend cutting the intencity back a fair way. Replacing the longer 3 and 4hr rides with lower intencity <150bpm (lets call this LT Zone 2) base type rides. This will improve your endurance which will help in longer races.

I would make the shorter ride (LT Zone 3)Endurance Intervals, say 10minutes on and 10minutes off and do 3 or 4 sets per ride. It has been shown that riding in this zone for longer periods of time isn't as benificial as it could be.
Maybe include one higher intencity ride per week but keep it shortish.

Increase intencity as the training progresses to the build periods.


Having Said that: What you do is upto you- for me it was very trial and error at first until I got my hands on a ripper training plan, and modified it to suit myself. I found I was riding in LT Zone 3 and it really didnt help me at all. Duing my current base period I spend most of my time doing LT Zone 2 riding, and am now progressing onto Zone 3 Endurance Intervals and it has helped my riding speed no end.

Obviously others will tell you differently, it's upto you to deside whats best for you and your body.

- Is there enough training per week?

Well thats upto you- at 16 you should have a life and school to attend, and unless you are winning some big events I wouldn't try to squeeze much more in.
I work full time, so I guess I am in a similar predicament- but I have found it very hard to do anything over 14hrs perweek and still have time to do stuff unless you are sitting on the bike for 5hrs both Saturday and Sunday which I dont recomend.

[A e o l u s]

In response to CulBaire:

Yes this is off season training
My training is structured currently as this:
Monday - 2hrs
Tueday - Rest
Wednesday - 3hrs
Thursday - 2hrs
Friday - Rest
Saturday - 4hrs
Sunday 3hrs 30mins
Note:
I am self-coached, I set my sessions and training, to what people have advised me and what I have read.

I feel I have built my base, my racing dried up around the end of september, and after a break of 2-weeks, I restarted training with the aim of building a base to progess my training come late december/january.

Yes I am 16, my main goals at the moment are, to work on buliding endurance, power and strength.

I would struggle to fit much more training in, at 14-15hrs a week currently I have got enough time for possibly 2hsrs- 2hrs 30mins, but that is all.

Thanks
Jack

[Trek OCLV]

Ok, im looking for some advice my training currently is as follows:
Monday - 1hr 30mins, steady 150bpm <
Tuesday - 2hrs 160-165bpm
Wednesday - 3hrs, 1hr 45mins @ 175bpm
Thursday - rest day
Friday - 45mins (rollers) 150bpm <
Saturday - 4hrs 165-175bpm
Sunday - 3hrs 30mins 165bpm<

Max HR 198bpm
Resting HR 48bpm

Total - 14hrs 45mins

The questions are:
- Should intensity be included in an off-season training programme?
- If not, what should be done instead? If so is there enough intensity?
- Is there enough training per week?

Notes:
I am 16years old, first year junior this year, main goals for next year are short time trials (40km, 25miles max) and road races ( 100-150km, 60miles - 80miles)

Is this the training you do in this weeks ? I'm next season also first year junior and i trained the last to week about 7-8 hours. In normal weeks i train about 7 hours a week. I don't see why you have to train almost like a pro, in 2 year you are an Espoir and are you going to train 20 hours a week then? I think its way to much for a first year Junior. 10 hours a week is in my opinion enough at this time. In Feb i wil be training aubout 10-12 hours and if i'm not able to race good with that amount of training i think i have to search another sport. But if you feel good with your trainingweek i'm not going to stop you. I just find it al lot.

Hmm, just a little (off-topic) question. I'm also 16 years old and at this time i'm not really motivated to step on the bike, last friday i was bored on training and turned back after 30 min. Do you think this will pass by in a week or so? or do you think i'm fed-up with the sport and i should quit?

[C a s r a n]

I think up to 15 hours a week for a junior is just perfect; I wouldn't advise to train less than 10 hours (in my opinion that's for lazy people, unless a tough job or illness holds you back from training this amount of hours). If your body is able to support this amount of trainig and you are willing to do, go for it, even up to 20 hours once.
I learned this period of the year is the most important. I use to train the most during winter; when the season is going on I do less hours on the bike.

You had some nice comments above. I agree with CulBaire when he states this could be a bit to much intencity: in a first period of about 2500km I would suggest you to do up to 80% of your weekly training in a slow extensive zone (or even below, in "recuperation" zone). After that you could add some more intencity, without forgetting to train the extensive zone to have a good aerobic capacity. You will benefit from this winter training work the entire season!! Training zones are established best by an outdoor lactate test on the bike.



Above is one of my training rides (on Dec. 2). I did 4 hours: 37% in recuperation zone (for me this is <130bpm), 43% in extensive zone. This is what I mean with "slow" kilometers. It is better to train a bit too slow, than always train too hard.


Another good advise is to do some running. Though this is debateable, I fully endorse running for cyclists during winter. Take a look at this article.



------------


Running for the Cyclist

By: Michele Ferrari
Published: 31 Dec 2004

Is running recommended for cyclists as alternative activity? Dr Ferrari says...

Bad weather and cold temperatures in wintertime often make it very hard to go out on the bike and perform the daily training.

Specific gym sessions or indoor training on stationary bikes therefore have to be part of the usual winter program; some athletes prefer doing some MBK, cross-country ski or swimming as complementary activities.

Many cyclists are hesitant and suspicious when it comes to running, commonly deemed responsible for sore legs, joints and tendons problems and said to utilize muscles not relevant to the cycling gesture.

Indeed running implies both concentric muscle contractions (fibers working to shorten) in the pushing phase and eccentric muscle contractions (fibers working to stretch) in the landing phase, from the impact with the ground until the beginning of the pushing phase.
The eccentric component increases when running downhill, whereas it reduces when running uphill.

Cycling instead involves almost exclusively concentric muscular work, with a modest eccentric component when pedaling out of the saddle, especially in sprints and accelerations.

Human movement (with the exception of swimming, requiring only concentric contractions) and generally any muscular activity imply both concentric and eccentric work, alternating in the cyclic nature of gesture.

The eccentric component is mainly the one that induces the most significant increases in muscle strength: repeating exercises such as leg press or squats are most effective in the “return phase” of the movement.

A cyclist who exclusively relies on pedaling tends to lose strength.

I believe running can be useful to cyclists during wintertime, either to maintain a good cardio-respiratory efficiency, or to improve the strength, or to remedy muscular unbalances caused by cycling practice.

Obviously one has to start with moderation (15-20 minutes, 3 times a week), preferring soft grounds (e.g. grass) and flat or slightly uphill courses.

One could then gradually increase up to 40-60 minutes, 3-4 times per week.
Heavier athletes will have to carefully choose the proper courses and be wary of the progression of distances.


source: www.53x12.com

[Ridley]

I enjoy running, but the feeling the next day

[Trek OCLV]

if you train as a first year junior 20 hours a week you'd better stop with your sport, races are up to 140 km here in holland, but training once in 2 of 3 weeks up to 3-4 hours has to be enough to set some really good prestations over the season, i really don't see the sence of training 5x4 or 3 hours, thats just sick. thats more like a second year espoir or pro. You really arent talented if you train like that as a junior. If you ever going to be a pro you have to train up to 30-35 hours a week or what?

Casran why should this training be neccesary?

[C a s r a n]

if you train as a first year junior 20 hours a week you'd better stop with your sport, races are up to 140 km here in holland, but training once in 2 of 3 weeks up to 3-4 hours has to be enough to set some really good prestations over the season, i really don't see the sence of training 5x4 or 3 hours, thats just sick. thats more like a second year espoir or pro. You really arent talented if you train like that as a junior. If you ever going to be a pro you have to train up to 30-35 hours a week or what?

Casran why should this training be neccesary?

Something like 15h/week average is imho what a non-lazy junior should train. Since Dutch is your native thongue, I can refer you to this example of a good junior training scheme (made by my trainer): http://www.cvta.be/index.php?option=com ... view&id=51 With this kind of training a friend of me (and a fellow WW member) succeeded in winning an impressive number of junior races (including Tour of Flanders, World Cup wins, stage races; he was by far the best belgian junior that year) without ever feeling tired during a whole season.

I think your argumentation makes a couple of misunderstandings:
- One of these being the wrong statement I often hear in Belgium and the Netherlands: "a training should never be longer than the duration of your longest race(s)". False! If you want to stimulate your endurance capacities, long training rides are from atmost importance. But more important, it will improve your aerobic capacities with hughe steps, and this will result in the ability of having more and longer conditions peaks during the race season and the ability to stay in low heart rate zones (with low lactate) during long periods of the race; some of these guys can finish races with ever going above MLSS.
- Another false thought is that you must train twice as much when you are a U23 rider or a pro. If you are a talented rider a surplus of only 20% to 40% of the training volume will be enough: races are harder in these categories, but riders have more developped and full-grown bodies.
Some say/think that, if you train that much as a young rider, you can't make any progress any more as an U23 rider (because you can't double your training volume any more). False! Firstly I want to see the mental side of it: it's mentally very hard for a rider who is used to very few training to double his training amount. Secondly this consideration: if you're riding a very hard schedule as a top talented junior (for instance 30 big international races + world champs) what do you think is the best for your body, doing this with a fully 100% trained aerobic potential (can easily be seen with a lactic test) or with a less trained one and riding what we call "on your talent"? I know a lot of riders with excellent results who simply train too less; they still have nice results because they are so much talented, but I fear they are overusing their bodies and will sooner or later experience a backlash.
- Why do you think that someone who's training "that much" is less talented? If you're body isn't talented for endurance sport it will quickly give signals of "too much training input"! The experience of my trainer is that the step of becoming first year espoir (where you suddenly encounter athletes of 10 years older) was never a problem with this kind of dedicated juniors, where as a lot of other guys nearly drowned in this most important category switch.

I know their is an argumentation between trainers about the amount of training, and some will opt for less training and higher intensities... but, mind you, Erik Zabel is -of all pros- probably the guy with the most training kilometers and still his career is longlasting without ever being burned out. His win in Paris-Tours (and afterwards still being able to win a Six Days) is for many the example that his continued long hour training work helps him to stay at the top of his capacities.

[C a s r a n]

I enjoy running, but the feeling the next day

Try to run at a lower pace (even if you think this is nearly walking) and drive up your distances slowly. Cyclists are less used to running and the effort is more demanding for the body, so give your leggs the time to recover. You will make progress; I could easily run for 2 hours on the beach (in sand!) 10 days ago without feeling it the other day.

After your run, it's not bad to ride your bike at a low gear for half an hour (outside or on a trainer).

[LJ]

I could easily run for 2 hours on the beach (in sand!) 10 days ago without feeling it the other day.

OK Haile, I'll take you on a run were you will feel the pain next day....

[Trek OCLV]

Casran thanks for the really good explanation (do you write it like this??) i never looked at it like that way. And thank for the site with info, this could be really usefull

[A e o l u s]

Is this the training you do in this weeks ? I'm next season also first year junior and i trained the last to week about 7-8 hours. In normal weeks i train about 7 hours a week. I don't see why you have to train almost like a pro, in 2 year you are an Espoir and are you going to train 20 hours a week then? I think its way to much for a first year Junior. 10 hours a week is in my opinion enough at this time. In Feb i wil be training aubout 10-12 hours and if i'm not able to race good with that amount of training i think i have to search another sport. But if you feel good with your trainingweek i'm not going to stop you. I just find it al lot.

Hmm, just a little (off-topic) question. I'm also 16 years old and at this time i'm not really motivated to step on the bike, last friday i was bored on training and turned back after 30 min. Do you think this will pass by in a week or so? or do you think i'm fed-up with the sport and i should quit?[/quote]

Yes this is the amount of training I do per week. I couldn't get by on 7-10hours a week training, I would go insane constantly thinking am I doing enough? why am I sat here when i could be out training? etc. I agree that you need to (correct word???) make you body accustomed to the training workload during the "off-season" so that during the racing season your body will be used to the effort and energy required to train/race for 15hrs+ per week. I dont think I will increase the amount of training by much end of Jan/Feb possibly 1 to 2 hours however (i don't want to give away all my secrets here) I will increase the intensity on two of the weekly rides and commence with strength and power building sessions, I will also start to ride once a week on the time trial bike because this improves flexibility and also gets the body used to the position. However I do realise that is is vital to have enough recovery when increasing training intensity, it is important to allow the body to recover from high intensity sessions, so that it is at maximum capactiy for the next intensity session.

On the other point, I cant really relate to lack of motivation even at this time off the year, I realish every oppertunity I have to ride the bike. I don't know whether this is just me, or are most people lack this? If you are bringing up the option of quitting I can't really understand whats going through your mind??

@ C a s r a n, great info, thanks again[/i]