Need Advice on Increasing 30min Threshold

A light bike doesn't replace good fitness.

Moderator: Moderator Team

User avatar
Tapeworm
Posts: 2585
Joined: Thu May 03, 2007 10:39 am

by Tapeworm

Generally I wouldn't read much into Friel for cycling training.

If you have any major difference between TT/road power then specific position training will help narrow the gap.
"Physiology is all just propaganda and lies... all waiting to be disproven by the next study."
"I'm not a real doctor; But I am a real worm; I am an actual worm." - TMBG

by Weenie


User avatar
paddydog
Posts: 36
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2006 9:12 am

by paddydog

Generally I wouldn't read much into Friel for cycling training.



“Ah, how the seeds of cockiness blossom when soiled in ignorance.”
― Steve Alten

User avatar
devinci
Posts: 3039
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 9:43 pm
Location: Canada

by devinci

I also agree Friel doesnt make lot of sense in a lot of things he claims and I dont like his periodisation approach. I dont like how he see cycling qualities and how they should be developped. Its not cockyness, Friel is just a bit outdated IMO and doesnt do much for those who are time limited or use a different style of periodisation then his old school method.

surlaplaque
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2011 4:00 pm

by surlaplaque

What reference do you guys suggest rather than Friel?

User avatar
devinci
Posts: 3039
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 9:43 pm
Location: Canada

by devinci

Using your own judgment to put together basic concepts and training principle. I like Hunter Allen, Coggan, the folks at fast cat coaching, there are a few good books out there too. The wattage group as some good coaches who give some very helpful insights, but there is a lot of crap over there too.

But most of all, use your own experience. Training is often a n=1 thing, some respond to some kind of training, some dont. You need to keep in mind some basic training principles but you need to figure out your own stuff.

natefontaine
Posts: 270
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2010 3:37 am

by natefontaine

I'll just pick a number and try to hold it for 30 minutes, then go from there.

User avatar
paddydog
Posts: 36
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2006 9:12 am

by paddydog

Hey Nate,

Don't do that. Very unscientific. :lol:
Drop me a PM and I'll send you a good protocol for TT threshold training.

Cheers,
Paddy

natefontaine
Posts: 270
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2010 3:37 am

by natefontaine

Getting some baselines, I tried to see how long I could hold 360w, and got just over 11min, then I rested for 5min then tried 330w, made it 21min and called it a day.

Based on this I think I am going to focus on the longer intervals as Devinci suggested. Right now I just don't think I am that good at suffering though longer intervals, but I will get better.

Also This was on my road bike.
Last edited by natefontaine on Sun Jan 27, 2013 9:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

natefontaine
Posts: 270
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2010 3:37 am

by natefontaine

I would like some feedback on this workout I recently completed, TT bike in the aerobars, stationary FWIW. I have found I can hold higher power longer with a gradual increase in power is this normal? With the longer warmup my second effort has a lower perceived effort with higher power so I guess that is good. This is 3 weeks dedicated solely to the TT bike. Is 10min recovery too long in a 2x20min workout? It seems to go by really fast but I could try cutting it down if you think it could help. Basically I do a workout, the do easy recovery rides until I feel a low perceived effort with a solid power and low HR.

16th - 2x20 @ 288w and 294w http://www.mapmyride.com/workout/222436500#replay
15th - 1h30 @ 207w and 148bpm
14th - 1h45 @ 187w and 141bpm with 3x1min every 30min at 430w
13th - 1h00 @ 160w and 130bpm with 1min at 470w
12th - same workout as the 16th 2x20 @ 273w and 287w

erty65
Posts: 235
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 5:45 pm

by erty65

natefontaine wrote:I would like some feedback on this workout I recently completed, TT bike in the aerobars, stationary FWIW. I have found I can hold higher power longer with a gradual increase in power is this normal?
Perhaps, i.e. you just got a proper warmup.
natefontaine wrote:With the longer warmup my second effort has a lower perceived effort with higher power so I guess that is good. This is 3 weeks dedicated solely to the TT bike. Is 10min recovery too long in a 2x20min workout? It seems to go by really fast but I could try cutting it down if you think it could help. Basically I do a workout, the do easy recovery rides until I feel a low perceived effort with a solid power and low HR.

16th - 2x20 @ 288w and 294w http://www.mapmyride.com/workout/222436500#replay
15th - 1h30 @ 207w and 148bpm
14th - 1h45 @ 187w and 141bpm with 3x1min every 30min at 430w
13th - 1h00 @ 160w and 130bpm with 1min at 470w
12th - same workout as the 16th 2x20 @ 273w and 287w

natefontaine
Posts: 270
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2010 3:37 am

by natefontaine

Keeping the workout protocol the same I continued today with good results, can't seem to get the mapmyride to cooperate.

23rd - 2x20min @ 302w and 312w (The 40min warmup plus the 20min effort had an avg power of 270w for the hour :lol: and power is up 25w from 2 weeks ago :o )
22nd - 1hr @ 200w
21st - off
20th - one 40min crit and one 50min crit
19th - one 40min crit
18th - 1hr @ 185w (with 2x30s at 500w)
17th - 1hr @ 185w (with 2x30s at 500w)

natefontaine
Posts: 270
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2010 3:37 am

by natefontaine

The 2x20min really are excellent workouts. Last workout I finished with 312w and was totally spent afterward. Prior to today's 20k TT, I've riding the TT bike daily for the past 3 weeks.

20k TT - Course was straight out and back with fresh asphalt. First 10k was -.5% with a left/right cross tailwind ~15kph
I used the same ramping warmup for this event I've been doing for my workouts increased 20-30w every 7mintues until about 320w@5min

0-10k was 334w@11:02min@54.2kph
10k-20k was 334w@14:58min@39.4kph
26m02s@334w

Close to my goal of 340w for 30min

User avatar
Tapeworm
Posts: 2585
Joined: Thu May 03, 2007 10:39 am

by Tapeworm

Some excellent power there Nate, nice work. Had the wind picked up on the return leg? Generally (and I'll stress - *generally*) that kind of power with that kind of headwind should see you still be above 40kph if your position is good (also depending on equipment etc).

I'd also add whilst the constant power is great for training purposes on this course I would have eased off the throttle a fraction with the tailwind and then opened it up more into the headwind. The correct pacing in a TT is a tricky thing indeed.

But again, nice power :thumbup:
"Physiology is all just propaganda and lies... all waiting to be disproven by the next study."
"I'm not a real doctor; But I am a real worm; I am an actual worm." - TMBG

natefontaine
Posts: 270
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2010 3:37 am

by natefontaine

I really felt like I was holding a lot back for the first 10k. I wonder how much a difference a disc and trispoke would have made over the 303FC's I used.

by Weenie


User avatar
Tinea Pedis
Posts: 8417
Joined: Sat Mar 14, 2009 6:08 am
Location: Geelong
Contact:

by Tinea Pedis

You held nearly 55km/h and felt like you were holding back? :unbelievable:

Your speed back does indicate though either the wind was a lot stronger than you might have realised, you went out harder than the data (and your RPE) is suggesting or both.

Post Reply
  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post