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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 6:28 pm 
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Posts: 255
A little background: This is my 3rd year of racing, i'm 31y/o and will be racing cat1/2 races this year. I imagine myself as a TT specialist, so that is where I focus my efforts. I really would like to improve my 30min threshold. Can anyone give suggestions on what types of workouts would focus on improving 30min efforts?

Here are a few of my favorite workouts...
Tmax intervals: Which are 6 x 2min at 440w with 4min recovery at 170w
5min stepups (from Tapeworm): Beginning at 200w, increasing 25w every 5min until exhaustion, rest and repeat. Also variations of this workout with 10min and 20min steps.


Power Profile, taken from best efforts in GoldenCheetah
30s: 799
1min: 610
3min: 445
5min: 394
10min: 354
20min: 327
1hr: 309
2hr: 283

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S-WORKS Venge 2012 - 7.3 kg
Allez E5 - 7.3kg
DengFu FM086 - 8.3kg
CAAD9 - 6.32kg


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 7:22 pm 
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Other than improving numbers what is the goal competition wise? What is the scenario that you want to apply it to?


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 8:38 pm 
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anythings like 2x20min, 3x15min, 5x5min with 1min rest, actual 1x30min would all be very good.

Toped off with some 110-120% FTP shorter intervals.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 1:34 am 
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All the stage races have time trials from 8 to 35 minutes. Some of them them require strategy and not just raw power. But I know that my ability between 10 and 30 minutes needs the most work.

Devinci, based on that CP above, what power do you think should be my target, for those intervals you suggested?

_________________
S-WORKS Venge 2012 - 7.3 kg
Allez E5 - 7.3kg
DengFu FM086 - 8.3kg
CAAD9 - 6.32kg


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 1:54 am 
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not sure

I'd do a proper MAP or 20min test and work it from there.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 6:27 pm 
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I did a MAP test on dec4th and ended up with 460w Based on that my FTP goal will be 350w ~ .75% of 460w.

I currently have 2 weeks remaining in my current training block, afterwards I'll put your suggestions on the calendar.

Below are my goal power numbers for each workout:

2x20min @ 335w (.95 of 350) with 4min recovery

3x15min @ 367w (1.05 of 350) with 4min rest

5x5min @ 420w (1.20 of 350) with 1min rest

There are 6 weeks in my next training block, should I rotate through each one during that time? Or just pick one and focus on it for 6 weeks?

_________________
S-WORKS Venge 2012 - 7.3 kg
Allez E5 - 7.3kg
DengFu FM086 - 8.3kg
CAAD9 - 6.32kg


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:06 pm 
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what protocol did you use for your MAP test? I use the RST 25w per 1min protocol and estimate my FTP doing 72% of the last minute average power.

Few things, you might wanna forget about 5x5min/1min at 120%, they are more meant to be done at 105% of FTP.

3x15min at 105% might hurt a ton too.

Depending on your racing schedule, I'd hit the 95-100% intensity range and even below with longer duration. I would touch the 110%+ just yet especially if your races are not close.

For the 6 weeks I'd stick to SST and L4, 88% to 100% of FTP, 2x20, 3x15, 2x30, 3x20, etc. No point to overshoot the intensity just yet IMO


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 11:30 pm 
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My protocal for MAP testing:
170w spin for 20-30min, then starting at 200w increase 20w every minute til exhaustion. The power level at the last minute completed is my new Pmax: The next power level is my new goal power. Hence 460w is my goal and how I gauged my new training zones.

Based on your method I would take 440w*.72=316w, which is about right for my current FTP, maybe 10-15w low.

Racing season is coming up fast, starting mid-January and finishes off at the end of April. If i'm trying to increase my maximal power for 30min by the first week in February, why would I want to do lower intensity for a longer duration? After april I take a long break then prepare for the 40km ITT and uphill TT's in July through September.

_________________
S-WORKS Venge 2012 - 7.3 kg
Allez E5 - 7.3kg
DengFu FM086 - 8.3kg
CAAD9 - 6.32kg


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:11 am 
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well you've got 2 approach:

1- Go high intensity, over 100% FTP with deffirent effort durations

or

2- Go SST and below 100% FTP for longer durations.

It depends on the time available, but Febuary is close and gaining significant power will be hard. I'd go high intensity since the key races are close.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 3:09 am 
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Nate, you in Asia? Where else has a race season ending in April? (not that Asia ends then anyway)

Otherwise there's time to get some gains, but like devinci recommended go the higher intensity.

316 isn't a bad FTP to start with though. You must be a smart racer if it's allowed you to get to Cat 1/2

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 3:37 am 
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What has worked for me are 3 things;

1) 2x20 @ FTP with 10 min RI. The first interval I go at FTP, the second interval I go as hard as physically possible - even if I blow up.

2) 4x10 @ 105% FTP with 5 min RI. I usually go at FTP until minute 8, and then ramp it up as hard as I can for the remaining 2 minutes of the interval.

3) 5x4min as hard as I possibly can with 3 min RI. Usually I am able to hold 110-115% FTP for the first 3 intervals, but the final 2 I am struggling to hold it. The last 2 intervals I typically see a drop of 3-5%, but I fight with all my might to hold as high a wattage as I can.


Typically during my build I do each of these intervals once a week. It is VERY taxing, but it works wonders. I never had any luck with SST, but instead found much more success being at threshold or above. My schedule will often look something like this:

S - Rest or 1hr Recovery
M - 4x5min
T - 2.5hr Zone 2
W - 4x10 @ FTP
Th - 1.5hr Tempo Ride or recovery if needed
F - 3 Hours Zone 2
S - 2x20 @ FTP

I'll do the 4x10min intervals, and recovery rides on my TT bike usually. I find it helps me with my ability to put out power when in drops or aerobars.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 4:00 am 
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^ I concur with this approach but would be real defined on the rest days, maybe going a double rest day every second or third week.

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"I'm not a real doctor; But I am a real worm; I am an actual worm." - TMBG


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 5:24 pm 
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Between interval days, my normal ride is 1.5-3hr at 240w (coincidentally .75*316) and making sure to keep my HR below 150bpm (80% of max FTP HR). Would this be considered this SST?

_________________
S-WORKS Venge 2012 - 7.3 kg
Allez E5 - 7.3kg
DengFu FM086 - 8.3kg
CAAD9 - 6.32kg


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 5:43 pm 
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nope

more endurance level ride (L2)

I'd keep em lower intensity and/or OFF day(s)


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 12:58 am 
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Devinci, I was going off of what Friel said about riding at the L2/L3 border being optimal for aerobic base training. I am always kinda confused about SST, because of the "Arbitrary Units" on the popular graph, and the vague oval. I do drop the power and effort if I feel fatigued and do take "rest" days when needed. I try and listen to my body, and it calls for off days once in a while, sometimes, 2-3 days.

Ghost, that looks great. Similar to what I do already, I'll see about incorporating something along those lines.

TP, there are races after April. Though that's when I call my race season over, so I can get ready for the next cycle of TT's in the fall. Also I am a horrible at Road, do good at Crits with long solo breaks, I win the Stages with my TTing. Not a cat 2 yet, but soon.

I would like to mention, I'll be using the TT bike as much as possible starting January. Plus about 85% of my rides are done indoors on rollers staying in the aero position as much as possible.

_________________
S-WORKS Venge 2012 - 7.3 kg
Allez E5 - 7.3kg
DengFu FM086 - 8.3kg
CAAD9 - 6.32kg


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