Strength training - noob questions

A light bike doesn't replace good fitness.

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neeb
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by neeb

I've acquired a trap bar and some weights and have started to do occasional trap bar deadlifts, partially to compliment the cycling fitness but mainly just to maintain strength / bone density / core fitness as I get older (I'm 55). I also have a rack and a bar to do squats, but I thought I'd start with the deadlifts as there seems to be less to go wrong.. :D

I'm finding it difficult to know what to expect in terms of how the fatigue from this impacts cycling (as well as the ability to do more deadlifts).

I found that after 2 or 3 once-a-week sessions I could manage to lift 95kg with the trap bar (I'm 64 kg so about 1.5x body weight). I can just about manage 5 reps if I'm fresh, but the fatigue is sort of subtle... I find that the day after I do the 95kg reps I feel fine, but when I try to lift the weights again I can't move them! But the next week I'll be able to do them again.

With cycling I'm used to gauging fatigue by how the legs feel, but this is a bit different, and it does seem to impact on the cycling. So last night I tried to do a 2x15min FTP session and found I couldn't manage the second rep., I can only presume because I was still fatigued from the deadlifts about 30 hours previously.

What's a good bike session to do the day after doing weights?

maxim809
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by maxim809

I weigh and deadlift similar numbers to you, tho I'm younger. I do 5reps/5sets for deadlifts.

I am completely neutered the day after I deadlift. The fatigue is real when the lifts are low reps+heavy weight. I lose my top-end sprint the day after, and even holding top-end Z2 can be taxing from tired stabilizer muscles. The DOMs from deadlift when it hits just right extends from legs all the way up thru the lower back.

Recovery time is worst that first session in winter and gets faster over time, but the DOMs are still there even when done at a maintenance level in season.

For this reason, I most do Z1~Z2 the day after, and maybe some small ring speed work if I'm bored. Or I just put my rest day after my lift day (and even still I might be sore my 1st day back).

I save the strenuous on-bike work for when I am fresh.

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neeb
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by neeb

I don't think I could manage more than one set of 5 reps of 95kg. I can just about do 1x 5 reps if I rest for 10 seconds or so between each rep...

Of course I'm doing 95kg because that's the maximum I can manage and, well, ego I suppose, because it's new for me and I want to know how much I can do.

Would I be better doing something that I might be able to manage 5 sets of, say 75kg, and work up to 5x5 @ 95kg?

It's just suprising to feel fatigued doing something that only takes a minute or two to do and involves only a few seconds of actual effort.

maxim809
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by maxim809

Ah to be clear I wasn't implying you should do 5x5. Ignore what I'm doing.

Age and lifting experience are two of the most important factors when approaching rep/set/weight. Esp on a complex lift like deadlift that is prone to injury if not done with proper technique and form.

If you are starting then I am personally a huge fan of starting with just enough weight so you can perfect technique. Too light and you won't be able to feel the lift thru all your muscles. Too heavy and you're playing with fire, and not learning what the form should feel like.

I'm not a coach and this is the internet where the advice is as good as what you pay for it. But if 75kg helps you nail that sweet spot for learning form with zero risk of injury, then that's the number.

Yes, lifting gives crazy DOMs right? That is expected. You can be in and out of a gym in less than half an hour doing 5x5 squats and deadlift and be completely dead the next day. It's a bizarre paradigm shift for a cyclist who can do 5 hours of Z2 or 1hr of FTP and still feel okay the next day.

Lina
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by Lina

5x5 heavy deadlifts will kill you for a couple of days. It's a massive task for your body and will take a lot of time to revover from. 2 - 3 sets is much more feasible. And if you're doing it for strength make sure you have enough recovery between sets. 5 minutes at the absolute minimum. 10 is better.
maxim809 wrote:
Tue Feb 15, 2022 2:04 am
If you are starting then I am personally a huge fan of starting with just enough weight so you can perfect technique. Too light and you won't be able to feel the lift thru all your muscles. Too heavy and you're playing with fire, and not learning what the form should feel like.

Yes, lifting gives crazy DOMs right? That is expected. You can be in and out of a gym in less than half an hour doing 5x5 squats and deadlift and be completely dead the next day. It's a bizarre paradigm shift for a cyclist who can do 5 hours of Z2 or 1hr of FTP and still feel okay the next day.
You could learn the technique with a broomstick before putting any weight on. If you can't do it cleanly with a broomstick you can't do it cleanly.

Lifting shouldn't give you DOMS as long as it's done consistently. If you take a break for too long that's when you will get DOMS.

bikeboy1tr
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by bikeboy1tr

I have been doing more weight training this winter as its been colder than -5 as a high for many consecutive days now. I am older but have in the past done weight training regular in the winter but my back limits me as to what I can do. Deadlifts just to risky but squats if I dont go low and use good form with lower weight works many muscle groups for me so just do more reps instead of going big. Usually do the squats and then do leg presses to finish off with heavier weight as the back is stabilized there. Core is another area I work throughout the year but even moreso in winter. As I get older the importance of weights is more now.
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cheapvega
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by cheapvega

I think you will get used to it. Two things I would suggest.... up your protein intake if you haven't already. 1g/lb or I guess 2g/kg of body weight is a good amount.

Also, I would put your riding sessions before your leg related lifting sessions, at least until you get acclimated.

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neeb
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by neeb

cheapvega wrote:
Sun Feb 20, 2022 3:19 am
Also, I would put your riding sessions before your leg related lifting sessions, at least until you get acclimated.
It does seem to work better that way around. I almost feel that a bit of cycling fatigue primes the body for the lifting (maybe some neuromuscular thing), while the other way around it doesn't work, although you might feel as if it should.

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neeb
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by neeb

Lina wrote:
Tue Feb 15, 2022 9:19 am
You could learn the technique with a broomstick before putting any weight on. If you can't do it cleanly with a broomstick you can't do it cleanly.
When you say "cleanly", do you mean rapidly without too much straining?

With the trap bar I'm using the main thing is just to keep the back straight and push through the legs, right?

Lina
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by Lina

neeb wrote:
Sun Feb 20, 2022 5:36 pm
Lina wrote:
Tue Feb 15, 2022 9:19 am
You could learn the technique with a broomstick before putting any weight on. If you can't do it cleanly with a broomstick you can't do it cleanly.
When you say "cleanly", do you mean rapidly without too much straining?

With the trap bar I'm using the main thing is just to keep the back straight and push through the legs, right?
No, I meant with correct technique. You can't do heavy deadlifts that rapidly. Trap bar deadlifts are also really easy to do correctly, just keep your back straight and push with legs. And straight back doesn't mean vertical.

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neeb
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by neeb

Lina wrote:
Sun Feb 20, 2022 9:34 pm
You can't do heavy deadlifts that rapidly.
I noticed that. Takes about 3s maybe? Wasn't sure if that meant I was doing it wrong or not.

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