Getting my 3x3min intervals right

[shoopdawoop]

Has anyone tried the Flanigan method, that alot of people use for their FTP work, on 3 min intervals or Vo2max training in general? I just read through this thread and it kind of gave me that idea.

The Flanigan method is a simple 3-day cycle that is repeated for as long as you like, it seems to be pretty popular with triathletes:
-Day 1- 1x20 minute interval @105% of FTP with short warm up and cool down
-Day 2- 2x20 minute intevals @95-100% FTP with 2-5 minutes in between with a short warm up and cool down
-Day 3- 1 hour active recovery ride

Some people splice in a day 4 or 0 with a long endurance ride or a second day of rest but it seems to be pretty effective for raising threshold wattage maximum while still working the repeatability and mental focus side of things.

So for 3 min Vo2Max intervals it would be something like:
-Day 1- 3x3 minute intervals with a larger amount of rest at some number like 105% or 100% mmp for 5 mins with a short warm up and cool down
-Day 2- 6x3 minute intervals with a shorter amount of rest at say 90-95% of mmp for 5 mins and again a short warm up and cool down
-Day 3- 1 hour active recovery ride

You would want to play around with the percentages but I think that a plan like this might be really effective in raising Vo2max type power. It would also kind of be a mix of the two prevailing ideas that seem to exist in this thread, hitting maximums and practicing your fatigued or stressed ability for races. Again this is all just speculation but I thought I should share the idea!

[mrlobber]

KW, just a few questions:
- if you're aiming for 5min MMP (to keep it aerobic) but going "too hard and fade" are you not actually then pushing in to anaerobic.
- the reason you're fading after 6? See above question
- isn't there a % power rule that when you can't hold (iirc) 20% of power aim the interval session loses it's effectiveness (so pushing for 11 or 12 is really not doing you any good)
- if the first 4-5 aren't that taxing, are you going too hard or not?

Tried 8x3 min the other day, but what I did, was not really aim for 5min MMP which for me is about 125% of my FTP (and, thus, would fall into the AC zone according to Coggan), but targeted approx 114% of FTP, with recovery intervals being at 70% FTP. The last two intervals were indeed taxing, so I ended the workout at that point, having netted nice 100+ TSS points in under 1.25 hours.

I'm fully convinced I wouldn't have been able to do 8x3 with 125% FTP , so I'm also curious, which target percentage did KWalker use for his routine.

[Tinea Pedis]

I thought your MMP was your FTP??

If not, what is the difference?

[mrlobber]

KWalker referred to 5min MMP, FTP would be 60min MMP.

[Tinea Pedis]

So MMP is essentially an arbitrary number.

Apologies, I thought it was more defined (ie: a synonym for FTP)

[devinci]

people sometimes use Mean Max Power for given durations to base their intervals intensity on a particular number. Personnaly, I prefer using % of FTP as it gives me an idea of what im doing intensity-wise.

[KWalker]

I use my 5 minute MMP curve number in training peaks, which falls right in line with the percentages of FTP. When in doubt, use the Coggan percentages, but aim towards the lower/middle end just to be sure. It makes no sense to do 4 intervals at 110% and then 2 at 106% and 2 at 96%. I cut off the intervals when I can no longer repeat within 5% of my 4th interval's power. I know they say 3, but this works better for me. I typically average in the zone for all of the intervals except the last one in which it becomes clear that I probably will have to dig really dip to finish it off.

The MMP figure differs if someone either has a low FTP and/or huge AWC, but I've found that athletes that have a very high 5min test compared to their 20min test or FTP tend to simply need more FTP work since its obvious that they lack in the aerobic department. I'd still do L5 work, but more as race prep since it clearly is not a weakness for that person. So far I've had 1 rider like this and he ended up tacking on 25w to his FTP, which solved most of his issues in longer road races.