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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 9:56 pm 
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Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2008 2:23 am
Posts: 655
Location: so. cal.
i do not race, or rude in a club but since discovering starva i have seen how good or how not good i am. here is the challenge there is this local hill a cat 3 2.4 miles @ an average 5.4% and the top 10 riders ride the hill at an average speed of in the low 13mph-15mph range. my best time has been an average of 11.1, but that was before i separated my shoulder last year. my current best time is 10.7mph. basically i want to know how to train to built a kick strong enough to at least hold a 14mph pace. my weight is 148lbs and i am 5'9" and my heart rate when i have gone all out on this climb is 185bpm.

the second section i need help is a climb that is next to the previous. on this one i am the one that holds the first place (out of only 8 riders) this one averages at about 11.7% and is only .5 miles but ot has some 20+ spikes. on this i want to improbe my speed from 6.4mph to 8mph (if that is realistic). The other problem i have with this hill my front wheel tends to lift off the gound; any tips to keep it planted on the gound?
on a side note it seems like strava is a little optimistic on average gradients.


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Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 9:56 pm 


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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 11:20 pm 
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Posts: 387
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
In terms of a climb like the first, the best training session I have found is hill repeats. Basically go out and ride up a hill that takes between 8-10 minutes at a 'sustainable' pace, then turn around at the top for a 4-5 min recovery and repeat the climb. Start off with 2 repeats and build it up from there, up to 6 if you really want to build the climbing. If not, do 2 or 3 intervals at a faster pace!

For the second, shorter/more explosive climb I think something like Hill Sprints would be beneficial. Say, 30 seconds flat out followed by 30 seconds recovery. And 10 repeats.

Other than that, I have become a fan of 'big gear climbing'. Pretty simple session to build strength. Find a hill around 10% and 400m long then ride it seated in the biggest gear possible then descend and repeat 5 times. Need a good warm up for this one and don't bother if your knees are suspect, it puts a lot of strain on them!

I guess it's fairly simple, comes down to power to weight ratio at the end of the day. A great excuse to spend more money on the bike to lighten it up 8) And I know how you feel with strava, good bye recovery and gentle rides :lol:


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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 11:36 pm 
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campbellrae suggestions are excellent. I've found incorporating strength training accelerates you muscle development, plust good nutrition and sleep are very important.

These two videos helped quite a bit

http://youtu.be/tv6k92pdKVA

http://youtu.be/WJ80bV6FJ-o


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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 12:26 am 
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Location: so. cal.
http://app.strava.com/segments/634311
this is the first segment

http://app.strava.com/segments/694637
this is the second
i still need to keep my front wheel planted on the tarmac as you noticed there are small 40% bumps.


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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 12:56 am 
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You don't lack strength, you lack aerobic power. In addition to the short sharp ~30sec efforts, longer VO2max efforts 5-10mins, FTP threshold 15-40mins and long slow distance rides will yield better results than focusing on only one energy system.

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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 1:19 am 
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Location: so. cal.
Q to tape
what would be a good number of vo2max and ftp efforts?
what would you recomend as rest?


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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 1:48 am 
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For VO2max I like:-
3x10mins with minimum 10mins rest
4x5mins with minimum 5mins rest
4x3mins with minimum 5mins rest

For threshold:-
2x20mins with minimum 10 mins rest
1 or 2 x 30mins with minimum 20mins rest.


The rest times are recommendations. Depending on fitness levels and particular training goals this should vary. For example if one is trying to improve solely a 5mim power effort then the longer time will be used for rest. If the rest time is reduced it become more of a threshold effort (eg: 5mins "ON" 1 min "OFF").

For your stated goals all the intervals are important but do not neglected the LSD either.

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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 1:54 am 
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Location: so. cal.
i will keep tape's recomendations and come back in a month to let you know where i stand.
i know i do need to work my lsd rides.


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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 9:04 am 
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Location: Geneva, Switzerland
Tapeworm wrote:
For VO2max I like:-
3x10mins with minimum 10mins rest
4x5mins with minimum 5mins rest
4x3mins with minimum 5mins rest

For threshold:-
2x20mins with minimum 10 mins rest
1 or 2 x 30mins with minimum 20mins rest.


For VO2 max I have thus far done intervals of [4 X 1 minute on / off] repeated 2-3 times. I don't have a power meter but have understood these intervals to be done at 'ballz out' or as hard as I can. Can people really do these for 10 minutes ?? or am I not understanding this. I'm concerned the sessions above would probably kill me.

Interestingly for 2X20 I had heard that the rest period length was arbritary as it is not genuine 'recovery'. Is there any truth in that ?


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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 10:24 am 
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roca, one other thing to keep in mind. The KOM holder on the second segment set that time on a very short ride. To me, when coupled with his impressive VAM and distinct lack of km's, looks like he waited until he knew there would be a roaring tail wind and smashed it up the climb.

The first segment KOM holder did it on a bunch ride, again with an amazing VAM in relation to his logged Strava distance for 2012.

I don't want to sound like a Strava hater (I use it all the time), but there are ways and means people set KOM's that are not possible to beat solo. At least not for regular riders like you and I.

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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 10:43 am 
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Location: so. cal.
Are you calling me a cheat?
I hold the best time for the second climb (short hill):sad:


Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk 2


Last edited by roca rule on Fri May 11, 2012 10:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 10:46 am 
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Location: so. cal.
I actually did it right after work @around 9pm. I was going to ride fire more time but it got too foggy.

Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk 2


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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 10:59 am 
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Location: Gold Coast, AUS
roca rule wrote:
i still need to keep my front wheel planted on the tarmac as you noticed there are small 40% bumps.

Elevation data is not sensitive or accurate enough in strava to notice you lifting the wheel off the ground.
What you are seeing is where two readings are taken, different elevations are measured, with one or both being wrong to provide this 40% grade.
Strava takes elevation 3 ways, with barometric data (if your device supports it), elevation databases, & GPS data. In that order of preference, I believe.


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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 11:02 am 
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Sorry mate :lol: with a VAM like that I see no reason why you can't grab the other segment KOM :wink:

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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 11:42 am 
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I trust Strava segments a lot more when the rider has a PM and I can actually see Avg power for a segment. That, coupled with VAM gives a lot clearer picture.

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Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 11:42 am 


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