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PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 6:49 am 
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Powerful Pete wrote:
Given the increasing difficulty in moderating the pro thread, the mods, after some discussion, have taken the decision to delete the thread.

As we would like to maintain the focus on WW issues (let's face it, most of the bikes on this forum cannot be raced in a UCI race), we would kindly request all of you to refrain from starting new pro threads. Even in chat. Any new threads that are opened to mirror the now defunct pro thread will be locked and deleted.

Thanks for your understanding.


Pete - when you became a moderator, I thought it was deserved and found that you did a good job, still think so... however we all make mistakes, and this is one big one.

Would have to disagree about a couple of things in your recent post:
1. Removing the Pro thread - obviously. Would have been better to clean it up, or let it run. Wasn't that long ago there were less moderators and the people on here managed mostly to modearte themselves and each other except for the rare incidents where the moderators would step in, but I for one, found they more added to topic than reprimanded anyone.

2. "Weight Weenie issues" as you point out has everything to do with the Pro Tour circuit... where the hell do you think the majority of new gear is launched and shown?!

3. "Most bikes on this forum cannot be raced in a UCI race" - not everyone who posts here can afford a bike that is under 6.8kg... i would even hazard a guess that 'most' would own bikes over 6.8kg and the few that have bikes under 6.8 are equally likely to own another that isn't... Weight weenies is about so much more these days than just 'light bikes'... did you miss the thread regarding numerous light components that fail? Riders that like bikes that ride nicely and who, actually might assign a higher priority to fit and ride feel over weight :shock:

4. Even the majority of bikes used by the Pro's from the Pro thread are way under 6.8kg but made to weigh 6.8kg by way of adding weights to them (SL3 in the BB just as 1 example). I'm sure you already know this, but the point is there are plenty of light bike components that are used and shown for the first time on the Pro thread... which is now not possible to be shown...

I personally was looking forward to the TdF and the new gear that comes with it - SRAM Red for 2011 just as one example... although at the end of the day, i guess it now gets it's own thread - but there will still be a lot of little things that the Pro's use first that will now be missed...


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Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 6:49 am 


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 6:50 am 
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Let me clarify that it has been archived and not permanently deleted, poor choice of language on my part.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 7:44 am 
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Powerful Pete wrote:
Let me clarify that it has been archived and not permanently deleted, poor choice of language on my part.



archived... where? :)


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 8:19 am 
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The main reason for my daily visit to WW was the pro stuff thread. IMHO was the best compilation of pro stuff all over the web. Specially whenever the big races were close in the calendar (P-R, Flandes, TdF,...)

The photos and the associated chat was very valuable and fun... I don't understand Moderators overreaction.

Please bring it back again.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 8:21 am 
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How ridiculous.

"It's been archived, until you eat all your veges, say sorry, and promise to behave".

I think this debacle is more indicative of a moderation policy breakdown, than purely a "bad" thread.

Conversation is crucial, and having posts in the thread with the picture makes so much more sense than having to locate loads of sub threads on pictures in another thread. That'd be almost as effective at killing the thread.

As was stated above, the pro gear provides an insight in to the nexus between lightweight parts and safety / ride quality - things that are no longer mutually exclusive.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 8:25 am 
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Yes it would go off topic, but it would never get out of hand and it would come back on topic itself within a page. It would never run on for pages and pages of off topic madness.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 8:37 am 
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Shame that's gone - I have noticed a few posters who seemed to be a bit far up there own asses and would post rubbish for the sake of it - I like some fourms where you can rate the individual posts, and after a number of people rate it as poor it gets hidden so is self moderated :idea:


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 9:20 am 
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Now that sounds like a good idea. Lots of QQ, not much in the way of solutions. A "user rated" form of self moderation would be a good idea, not sure if it's possible on the forum however.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 9:39 am 
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Agreed that sometimes the pro equipment thread got off topic but there was limited consistency from the moderators. When people started a new thread to discuss a piece of pro kit, they would be sent to the pro thread so some of this problem has been self induced.

The forum has changed over the past few years and many useful contributors have been chased off. Now it seems that the moderator team wants to chase off the rest of us.

I'll be checking out the fairwheels bikes forum from now on.

R.I.P. Weight Weenies. :(


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 10:30 am 
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Tapeworm wrote:
nothingman wrote:
...As for you thoughts on this thread to voice concerns, why should anyone who wants to add a "+1" refrain? Exactly whose opinion on the matter is "not needed?"


I fail to see how the "+1" or "Wow Armstrong's bike paint scheme is terrible, blah blah blah" added anything to the ProTeam thread. Other threads ARE about opinion, advice, information and hence these things are appropriate in those thread. But the ProTeam thread is too large a beast to get into 6 pages of drivel about "why Pro X's bike sucks" and all the variant chatter that spawn from it.

Like I said, there were repeated attempts to keep things on track, people ignored it and now complain that it's gone. The Mods have a hard job to walk the line of keeping things in the "spirit" of WW, I do not envy their job.


You didn't only object to people who added their thoughts to the Pro Equipment thread, you plainly said that people adding their opinion to this thread was "not needed."

You'd make a great mod around here.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 10:33 am 
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Bring it back and don't over-mod it!


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 11:27 am 
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This is truly disappointing. The cure seems much more harmful than the disease.

B-R-I-N-G---I-T---B-A-C-K.
B-R-I-N-G---I-T---B-A-C-K.
B-R-I-N-G---I-T---B-A-C-K.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 11:35 am 
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nothingman wrote:
You didn't only object to people who added their thoughts to the Pro Equipment thread, you plainly said that people adding their opinion to this thread was "not needed."

You'd make a great mod around here.


"This thread" being the one we are talking about, obvisously not the one we are on.

Great to see you've got some constructive thoughts.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 12:03 pm 
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Another lurker chiming in...

Bad moderation is much more harmful to this community than moderate offtopic, which will always exist on every good online forum. And the definition of offtopic in this particular case has been ridiculous. Shall we only discuss Schmolke and Tune in a dark room with a heavy Arnold Schwarzenegger accent, OK?

C'mon, it's only people discussing with people. Deleting a popular topic equals moderators attacking users and alienating them from this forum.

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Last edited by eurperg on Wed Jun 09, 2010 12:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 12:11 pm 
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To some I just might be another lurker that shouldn't be allowed to join the discussion. But as I have more to contribute than "Bring it back" or insulting the moderators, I feel free to post nevertheless.

As many other people posting in this thread I was checking the thread on a daily basis, mainly because it was a nice place to see what new stuff is used by pros and therefore available to mere humans later on. Bike tech is somewhat exiting to me, as to everyone here, and this thread was ought to be full of it. So over the last couple of years this thread has become a constant read and so the rest of the forum. Before I wasn't really interested in überlight stuff, and still I'm not the weeniest guy around, but as it is about light and practical I'm all into it and this place is one of the best to gather information as it doesn't provide marketing info only but experience of people using the stuff. Most of the time I have little to say, so I do not post some blablabla but read and use the search.
But back to the pro thread: One can hardly argue about the thread going out of hand during the last weeks. The moderator team clearly had a lot to do trying to keep it somewhat readable and enjoyable. During the last time there was seldolmy a page where they didn't feel the need to edit or delete posts. Most of the time they gave us the reasons and asked to use the thread in a better way.
I also have to say it was never really clear what was wanted in the thread by the moderators or the community - and as have been posted above the rules given were inconsistent.
Also I think the thread has bettered after being closed for 24h. I haven't really seen many off topic chit chat afterwards, but maybe it was deleted before me reading or I don't understand what is OK or not. I think, the removal of the thread was too early - maybe closing the thread was the right warning shot. Allow people to get used to harder rules.
However, I think posting would go back to being on topic once the Tour de France starts as new stuff will be used for the first time there. Manufactures want new equipment to debut there and so there's not much to see right now.

I really would like to see the thread coming back, but beforehand the moderation team should make the rules more clearly and discuss them with the members. We need to know
1. Is it only OK to post new equipment?
2. How much discussion about the equipment is allowed before opening a post in either the cycle chat or road forum?
3. Or should no discussion being posted that's more than "does Cav use new wheels?" - "Yes here's a pic"?
4. Is it allowed to express statements like "looks great", "fugly" or only "what's the weight?"

On internet message boards there'll always be people that don't read the rules. Therefore you'll never get rid of people who think the thread is there for them to post whos podiumed in some race or what they have bought for thei own bike. But simply removing the thread will punish the people who use it appropriately.

One more thing: Moderating a forum is work, people do it for free. Don't give them a hard time and don't insult them. I want the thread back as well and also think it wasn't right to remove it, but that isn't a reason for bad behavior.


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Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 12:11 pm 


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