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 Post subject: Re: clincher tire width?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:59 am 
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Joined: Wed May 13, 2009 5:23 pm
Posts: 637
Location: Denmark
challenge wrote:
Same thing with soft and hard
tail bikes. Great invention but then the MTB guys went back to hard tail. The advantage was not enough to compensate the weight (one reason and loss of power is the second reason). Great for Downhill but not for cross country. What I am saying is you have to see what discipline you are doing and gear up the best way for it. Again, if you want full suspension bike in cross country fine. Up to you.

Sometimes fullsuspension bikes win world cup XC races, sometimes hardtails do. I don't think there's an answer like you say "hardtails are best for XC racing". Kulhavy won a world cup race recently on a full-suspension 29er (= heavy full-suspension bike).
challenge wrote:
Disk brakes are fine in certain applications and technically valid but no advantage in cross. If you want to use them fine but you are not getting advantage and losing competitiveness.

Have you really tested hydraulic disc brakes thoroughly enough to say such a thing? We don't have proper hydraulic disc brakes, and yet you say that they are useless.
challenge wrote:
I am sure you have seen Nascar and for us Euro guys F1. Are the brakes flaming hot when they hit the brakes? Yes, because when a disk brake is cold.....no braking. The disk brakes works damn good at high temperatures. Road racing going downhill at 90km//h or 50m/h fantastic. Do you have the same braking in cross? Do your wheels get to 85-100 degrees C like on road or Down Hill? Final decision on how to gear up your bike is up to you.

There is a thing called brake fade. It happens when brake discs get warm - you loose power. I don't think car and bike racing are comparable in this sense. Besides, if disc brakes works well in XC racing (which they do!), then why wouldn't they work for cyclocross? The difference is not THAT big.
challenge wrote:
I am talking of something else. If someone has a warehouse full of product and they are not selling but have the power to influence the cycling rules this, is politics, nothing to do with technology and this happens in the industry. There are many examples out there just need to understand why certain rules are change, made, introduced and it is not always the way it seems for the end users.

Back to tire size what is the technical reason behind it?.....there is not one! So here it is ok to limit technology because we are probably disturbing some big company which has the power to influence ...... My point is politics in the bike industry and nothing against technology. Politics is damaging technology.

I totally agree with you on this! I just don't see how you can bash hydraulic disc brakes without having tried a proper system :)
challenge wrote:
Check out TRP Cross brakes released at Taipei 2011 show (pics attached)

I saw this solution, but for me, hydraulic disc brakes aren't "proper" hydraulic disc brakes before they are integrated in the shifter/brake units...

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 Post subject: Re: clincher tire width?
Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:59 am 


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 Post subject: Re: clincher tire width?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:51 am 
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in the industry

Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2006 4:05 pm
Posts: 62
the_marsbar wrote:
challenge wrote:
Same thing with soft and hard
tail bikes. Great invention but then the MTB guys went back to hard tail. The advantage was not enough to compensate the weight (one reason and loss of power is the second reason). Great for Downhill but not for cross country. What I am saying is you have to see what discipline you are doing and gear up the best way for it. Again, if you want full suspension bike in cross country fine. Up to you.

Sometimes fullsuspension bikes win world cup XC races, sometimes hardtails do. I don't think there's an answer like you say "hardtails are best for XC racing". Kulhavy won a world cup race recently on a full-suspension 29er (= heavy full-suspension bike).

Quote:
I agree it is up to you and I was referring to the past. 29er is now and things can change as tec evolves. I find there are 2 different styles EU cross style and US and request I receive from EU guys is the opposite from US. In any case I said that tech is welcome and it is up to the individual rider to gear up the bike.

challenge wrote:
Disk brakes are fine in certain applications and technically valid but no advantage in cross. If you want to use them fine but you are not getting advantage and losing competitiveness.

Have you really tested hydraulic disc brakes thoroughly enough to say such a thing? We don't have proper hydraulic disc brakes, and yet you say that they are useless.

Quote:
Did I say useless? I just said that in cross I and others have found it not helpfull becasue but if you want to use them I said it is fine. We have different styles and like to feel the bike in different ways.

challenge wrote:
I am sure you have seen Nascar and for us Euro guys F1. Are the brakes flaming hot when they hit the brakes? Yes, because when a disk brake is cold.....no braking. The disk brakes works damn good at high temperatures. Road racing going downhill at 90km//h or 50m/h fantastic. Do you have the same braking in cross? Do your wheels get to 85-100 degrees C like on road or Down Hill? Final decision on how to gear up your bike is up to you.

There is a thing called brake fade. It happens when brake discs get warm - you loose power. I don't think car and bike racing are comparable in this sense. Besides, if disc brakes works well in XC racing (which they do!), then why wouldn't they work for cyclocross? The difference is not THAT big.

Quote:
It does not seem that there is much differance but with some riders that have been trying different things notices they
lost more time and were not fluid in the curves. EU guys like to slde the bike in curves US guys like to have full grip in curves. As I said there are different styles. If disc brake is better for you you have now the possibility to use it.

challenge wrote:
I am talking of something else. If someone has a warehouse full of product and they are not selling but have the power to influence the cycling rules this, is politics, nothing to do with technology and this happens in the industry. There are many examples out there just need to understand why certain rules are change, made, introduced and it is not always the way it seems for the end users.

Back to tire size what is the technical reason behind it?.....there is not one! So here it is ok to limit technology because we are probably disturbing some big company which has the power to influence ...... My point is politics in the bike industry and nothing against technology. Politics is damaging technology.

I totally agree with you on this! I just don't see how you can bash hydraulic disc brakes without having tried a proper system :)
Quote:
I am sorry if you got the impression that was bashing the system. No way! That is not saying they are no good. Don’t use them. I find them more indicated on other uses but there we are not allowed to be used like on road. As more fine tuning and development will be made I said they will resolve some of the issues. I never bash a product as I am not a world champion pro and never criticize other peoples work. I said I don’t find them (may I add, yet) the best solution for cross. If you do I am happy and I don’t think I said they should be banned. You have choice but on tires no choice in sizing. Why? Can you give me a reason for this rule?


I think I said is is up to the riders and how he wants to gear up his bike. I did not bash the disc brake but find it more aprorpi
challenge wrote:
Check out TRP Cross brakes released at Taipei 2011 show (pics attached)

I saw this solution, but for me, hydraulic disc brakes aren't "proper" hydraulic disc brakes before they are integrated in the shifter/brake units...

Quote:
Don't get me wrong I was trying to make a point on politics and the fact that you have now you can use what you prefer. Disc or traditinal. For sure we will see more development on disc braks but please don't take me wrong. there are always to sides to things.

:beerchug:


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