Need Advice: Going Disc for CX in the Mud?

[MWDL]

Hello, all!

I've been racing cyclocross on my Salsa Chili Con Crosso (the old, sexy, red, scandium version) with Shorty Ultimate brakes in the narrow position. Today, I had a killer start but my bike, especially the Alpha-Q fork crown, got so jammed up with mud in the first lap that the front wheel wouldn't turn. Eventually, I had to take the wheel off and scrape the mud away from the brakes. I finished the race with my front brake disengaged, to avoid further clogs. That helped to some extent, but it still required several cleaning stops. Now, I'm considering selling my bike (I hate the thought...) and getting one with disc brakes for next year. I could use some advice.

I want a bike that will be a great CX race bike and durable, as I like "mountain biking" on my CX bike and am a grad student and can't afford to replace it.

I like the idea of a thru axle to stiffen things up and eliminate rotor rub, so bikes like the 2015 Redline Conquest, Niner BSB, Giant TCX Advanced Pro, and Focus Mares are interesting to me. Alternatively, what I'd love to do is put a Whisky Parts fork on a high-end alu 'cross frame (something like a Ritte Crossberg). I'd have to do this on a budget, though. I bet I could get about $800 - $850 for my bike and $500 for my wheels (American Classic Hurricane). That, plus a few hundred, maybe, is about what I'd have to work with.

So, here are my questions:

1. Can I expect disc brakes to perform better in the mud?
2. How durable can I expect a carbon CX bike to be?
3. Any experience with the Focus Mares AX? The geometry is quite a bit different than that of the CX.


JBV, this is your old bike that I'm riding currently. Maybe you could provide some insight?


Thanks, in advance, everyone!

[jeffy]

you seem to be initially be a little resistant to the idea, so why don't you "mullet" and buy a thru axle disc fork and run disc on the front only. good way to see if you like it.

[ajh]

You will need hydraulic brakes for the mud as cable actuated cannot automatically adjust to brake wear.

I did a race last year with BB7 brakes and had my leavers to the bar on lap 3 of 4 and was using my feet to stop on the last lap

I now have hope v twin brakes

[MWDL]

You will need hydraulic brakes for the mud as cable actuated cannot automatically adjust to brake wear.

I did a race last year with BB7 brakes and had my leavers to the bar on lap 3 of 4 and was using my feet to stop on the last lap

I now have hope v twin brakes

Thanks! This is hugely helpful. I was thinking I'd go with mechanical disc brakes because I don't need hydraulic-level stopping power, but it sounds like hydros would perform much more reliably in nasty conditions.

[grover]

3 general options

- full hydro system. no cable contamination and self adjusts for pad wear
- cable actuated hydro caliper. self adjusts for pad wear but still can get cables contaminated
- cable actuaged mechanical caliper. cables open to contamination and need to manually adjust for pad wear

manual adjust isn't a huge issue if you put some inline barrel adjusters near the handle bar. just dial up the cable tension as the lever throw increases. i belive the bigger problem with mechanical calipers is only having one pad move. the stationary pad needs to be adjusted very close to the rotor but then is quickly worn away due to low clearance and doesn't respond to increases in cable tension. the one exception to this that i'm aware of is the trp spyre where both pads retract away fromt he rotor and respond to cable tension. if you go mechanical make sure it's these.

if you can shell out for a full hydro system that is definitely the route i would go.

norco threshold is another to add to your list.

i'm riding a trek boone, it gets flogged on mtb single track too. my opinion is that carbon is more reliable for the intended use, has a higher impact resistance but if it does fail it fails catastrophically (eg. crash it on a rock puts a dent in an alloy/ti/steel frame versus cracking a carbon frame or doing nothing too it) and costs lots to replace

i think if you're on a budget only ride what you can afford to replace. going alloy may allow you to go full hydro instead of cable/mechanical discs which would be a better balance of performance.

[mattr]

How often do you race in mud that bad?
What precautions did you take to prevent the mud build up?

Is it worth swapping your bike thanks to one race with no "mud proofing"?

There are all sorts of tricks that can work to a degree to keep the fork crown mud free. (Why wasn't the rear bridge and chainstay/bottom bracket clogged too? I always find they clog first, or is the alpha Q a really light fork with bugger all clearance?)

[Briscoelab]

Bribe a friend with some good beer to work in the pits for you. Seriously, if it's that bad of mud... where you have to stop and scrape your wheels out, disc vs canti won't matter at all. A second bike that is clean would make a huge difference.

Now, if you don't have a second bike, there is no reason it couldn't/shouldn't be a disc bike. (unless you have tons of rim brake wheels with various treads glued up already).


Regarding discs. The full hydro setup is the best. They are awesome. But, the TRP spyre are quite nice as well. They pull both pads, not just one side like Avid BB7. They still have the non self adjusting wear issue. But, if you use stintered pads you should make it through a race. If it's a big deal, you can always put an inline barrel adjuster to account for wear.

[MWDL]

3 general options

- full hydro system. no cable contamination and self adjusts for pad wear
- cable actuated hydro caliper. self adjusts for pad wear but still can get cables contaminated
- cable actuaged mechanical caliper. cables open to contamination and need to manually adjust for pad wear

This is exactly the information I was looking for! Thank you!

How often do you race in mud that bad?
What precautions did you take to prevent the mud build up?

Is it worth swapping your bike thanks to one race with no "mud proofing"?

There are all sorts of tricks that can work to a degree to keep the fork crown mud free. (Why wasn't the rear bridge and chainstay/bottom bracket clogged too? I always find they clog first, or is the alpha Q a really light fork with bugger all clearance?)

I've had the same thoughts about overreacting to a single mud race. I'm racing in Indiana, Ohio, and North Carolina, mostly. From what I'm told, this season, my first racing in the midwest, has been unusually dry and that I should expect more mud next season.

I have more mud clearance in the rear than on the front. What kinds of tricks do you have to keep the crown mud-free?

Bribe a friend with some good beer to work in the pits for you. Seriously, if it's that bad of mud... where you have to stop and scrape your wheels out, disc vs canti won't matter at all. A second bike that is clean would make a huge difference.

Now, if you don't have a second bike, there is no reason it couldn't/shouldn't be a disc bike. (unless you have tons of rim brake wheels with various treads glued up already).

Regarding discs. The full hydro setup is the best. They are awesome. But, the TRP spyre are quite nice as well. They pull both pads, not just one side like Avid BB7. They still have the non self adjusting wear issue. But, if you use stintered pads you should make it through a race. If it's a big deal, you can always put an inline barrel adjuster to account for wear.

I'm thinking that I may just end up using my mountain bike as a pit bike to avoid swapping bikes. I hugely appreciate all the information, everyone!

[Calnago]

I'm thinking that I may just end up using my mountain bike as a pit bike to avoid swapping bikes. I hugely appreciate all the information, everyone!

Isn't the whole idea of a "pit bike" to enable swapping between laps and allow for cleaning of the mud caked bike after each lap or so? Not sure what you mean by using your mountain bike as a pit bike to avoid swapping.

[MWDL]

I'm thinking that I may just end up using my mountain bike as a pit bike to avoid swapping bikes. I hugely appreciate all the information, everyone!

Isn't the whole idea of a "pit bike" to enable swapping between laps and allow for cleaning of the mud caked bike after each lap or so? Not sure what you mean by using your mountain bike as a pit bike to avoid swapping.

You're right, my wording was confusing. What I meant by that is that I will use my mountain bike as a pit bike to avoid having to swap my current CX bike for a new one with better mud clearance.

[MWDL]

Here is a picture of the Alpha Q CX20 head on. This is from Geoff Kabush's bike for the 2009-2010 season. Looks like it might be an issue with the Alpha Q.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/pho ... o-cx/96059

[RussellS]

Would swapping forks to something with much more mud clearance be a better option? Instead of a new frame, new fork, disc brakes, etc. If the Alpha Q has limited mud clearance, I would guess there are other forks with much more mud clearance. Find one of those and sell the Alpha Q to help cover the cost of switching forks.

[MWDL]

Would swapping forks to something with much more mud clearance be a better option? Instead of a new frame, new fork, disc brakes, etc. If the Alpha Q has limited mud clearance, I would guess there are other forks with much more mud clearance. Find one of those and sell the Alpha Q to help cover the cost of switching forks.

I'm starting to think along these lines, too. However, when I take the headset and stem off, the fork doesn't just come out like the other forks that I have experience with. It's stuck in the frame. I'm not sure what the technical term for it is or how to remove it.

Even if the fork is removable, I probably wouldn't sell it without the frame because the fork is painted to match the frame (http://salsacycles.com/files/pages/Chili_Con_Crosso.pdf). An Enve fork would be a great upgrade, but at that price, I may as well sell the bike and put the money that I would spend on the Enve into a (used) frame and fork, eh? Maybe along the lines of a canti SuperX.

[mattr]

There will be a conical wedge in the top race. Many headsets have them.
Sharp tap to the top of the steerer should move everything around enough to get access and remove it. Have a look on Sheldon or the park website to get some more info.

And fwiw, that fork looks like a marketing man's dream, it's stiffer and lighter than any other cx fork on the market, thanks to using a crown more suited to road riding.

Bloody useless for cross though. Reckon the fork on my cx has about 3 times that clearance. Even when using oversize/icu illegal tyres.

I'd go shopping for a mid range "proper" cx fork. I'm using a kinesis one, not sure if you can get them in the US.

As for things to stop mud clogging, Teflon spray lube. Spray it liberally all over the back of the fork crown and bottom of the down tube (behind the bottom bracket helps too). Stops the mud building up so quickly. Bunny hops on the hard bits as well. Leaves the mud on the floor, not your bike. If there are any run ups, 5 seconds with a finger to hook the mud out. Make sure your straddle wires are as high and wide as possible (so the mud goes straight past them)