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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 1:05 pm 
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Lovely pic!

If he'd worked on his position he'd have won the race with a good deal of ease on a steel Colnago.


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Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 1:05 pm 


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 7:37 pm 
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Hasn't it been measured that on a 300m or so sprint at 65kph+ with full aero equipment you gain 1/4th or 1/2 a bikelength over a completely non-aero bike/rider?

It makes sense, actually.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:35 am 
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Indeed. One of my favourite shots of last year is the one of Eddy B-H winning the sprint against Hushovd and Goss in the Tour. He's the only one on a non aero frame. He is however wearing shoe covers - an accessory which reduces drag by more than a fancy frame whilst not impacting the wallet. If manufacturers could make massive money on shoe covers I suspect this fact would be better known...


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 4:22 am 
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airwise wrote:
Have any of you guys actually won a race on an aero bike?


Yes, and this was 6 years ago...(you might also note that the guy who ended up 3rd, in the yellow helmet, was also on a Soloist Carbon)
Image
Image

airwise wrote:
Just wondering as I've never seen one cross the line first in an amateur road race and I get to see a lot of those.

Now you can't say that any longer...you're :welcome:


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 11:16 am 
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airwise wrote:
Indeed. One of my favourite shots of last year is the one of Eddy B-H winning the sprint against Hushovd and Goss in the Tour. He's the only one on a non aero frame. He is however wearing shoe covers - an accessory which reduces drag by more than a fancy frame whilst not impacting the wallet. If manufacturers could make massive money on shoe covers I suspect this fact would be better known...


I am sure manufacturers could make a lot of money on aero shoe covers if the product was sufficiently differentiated and the advantages credible.

Where's the data on shoe covers reducing drag more than aero frames?


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 5:42 pm 
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sawyer wrote:
airwise wrote:
Indeed. One of my favourite shots of last year is the one of Eddy B-H winning the sprint against Hushovd and Goss in the Tour. He's the only one on a non aero frame. He is however wearing shoe covers - an accessory which reduces drag by more than a fancy frame whilst not impacting the wallet. If manufacturers could make massive money on shoe covers I suspect this fact would be better known...


I am sure manufacturers could make a lot of money on aero shoe covers if the product was sufficiently differentiated and the advantages credible.

Where's the data on shoe covers reducing drag more than aero frames?


I've actually seen data that depending on the shoe and the cover material (plain lycra = not good), covers are actually slower than no covers at all


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 8:34 pm 
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sawyer wrote:
Where's the data on shoe covers reducing drag more than aero frames?


There's plenty of data - most recently Top Velo wind tunnel tests showed just how insignificant the savings were with the S3 for instance.

The shoe cover data came from wind tunnel tests carried out for Aerosports Research between 2008 and 2010.

http://www.aerosportsresearch.com/image ... 2010_2.jpg


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 5:34 pm 
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airwise wrote:
sawyer wrote:
Where's the data on shoe covers reducing drag more than aero frames?


There's plenty of data - most recently Top Velo wind tunnel tests showed just how insignificant the savings were with the S3 for instance.


Huh? There's plenty of data (i.e. VN, Tour) which shows just the opposite. BTW, don't forget to take notice of error bars in any data...and if no error bars are shown :doh:


airwise wrote:
The shoe cover data came from wind tunnel tests carried out for Aerosports Research between 2008 and 2010.

http://www.aerosportsresearch.com/image ... 2010_2.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


I don't see anything in that link with actual data. In fact, look at the paper in the link below. It implies that in some situations, a shoe cover may be worse than no cover at all.

http://www.mediafire.com/?gxhmxvhgxizksxg


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 6:38 pm 
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Very interesting! So in a tt race shoe covers will slow you down! :mrgreen:
Anyway, if you ask me I don't think you can actually calculate the aero properties of a moving human body riding a bike. It's too f@cking complex mathematics.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 6:54 pm 
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kgt wrote:
Very interesting! So in a tt race shoe covers will slow you down! :mrgreen:
Anyway, if you ask me I don't think you can actually calculate the aero properties of a moving human body riding a bike. It's too f@cking complex mathematics.


Perhaps (even though CFD code and parallel processing seems to do a fairly good job), but you CAN measure it.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 9:10 pm 
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tanhalt wrote:
I don't see anything in that link with actual data. In fact, look at the paper in the link below. It implies that in some situations, a shoe cover may be worse than no cover at all.

http://www.mediafire.com/?gxhmxvhgxizksxg


That looks like a good test. It would be nearly impossible for someone testing an entire bike and rider to get the error low enough to discern these small differences. I'm convinced that is a big reason why people make "unusual" and often contradictory claims regarding aero.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 2:16 am 
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Can anyone that has the e-magazine post the weight (F/F) and stiffness numbers of the frames. If I had an ipad I certainly would have a subscription. Really wish they just do other electronic subscriptions.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 3:34 am 
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Discoverspeed wrote:
This photo has been posted before and it looks to me that an aero frame, a pair of aero wheels with a super rider edged this win... maybe gloveless helped in aerodynamics too? :wink:

Image


What a load of BS. The aeroness of his frame/wheels is such a negligible part that I won't even entertain the thought....I'll leave that to the marketeers of these companies who pedal the mostly unneeded and often overly overpriced equipment. They LOVE to tell you how important it is that their frame is claimed to be x-% faster better stiffer than their opposition.

To put a different spin on it what if; 1 rider was exposed to the wind just that little bit more on the day during the race. If he had a bit less sleep than the other, if he was not fuelled properly for the last 40kms, if he expelled far too much energy getting in position for the sprint, if his training weeks prior was upset by an upset stomach etc etc.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 4:17 am 
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I think you may be missing the point, Mikmik...

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Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 4:17 am 


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 4:27 am 
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maybe......but then again I am not one for buying into the 'new' hype all the time either. There is a lot that goes on before the finish-line (and even before a race in prep of) that counts a lot more. If you are talking about TTs then that is a slightly different story.

Am I way off? :)

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