Tour Magazine Aero Frame Test (wind tunnel) - Anyone read it

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
airwise
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Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2010 8:31 pm

by airwise

Lovely pic!

If he'd worked on his position he'd have won the race with a good deal of ease on a steel Colnago.

by Weenie


aldocg
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Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2010 3:05 am

by aldocg

Hasn't it been measured that on a 300m or so sprint at 65kph+ with full aero equipment you gain 1/4th or 1/2 a bikelength over a completely non-aero bike/rider?

It makes sense, actually.

airwise
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Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2010 8:31 pm

by airwise

Indeed. One of my favourite shots of last year is the one of Eddy B-H winning the sprint against Hushovd and Goss in the Tour. He's the only one on a non aero frame. He is however wearing shoe covers - an accessory which reduces drag by more than a fancy frame whilst not impacting the wallet. If manufacturers could make massive money on shoe covers I suspect this fact would be better known...

tanhalt
Posts: 109
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2006 6:36 pm

by tanhalt

airwise wrote:Have any of you guys actually won a race on an aero bike?


Yes, and this was 6 years ago...(you might also note that the guy who ended up 3rd, in the yellow helmet, was also on a Soloist Carbon)
Image
Image

airwise wrote:Just wondering as I've never seen one cross the line first in an amateur road race and I get to see a lot of those.

Now you can't say that any longer...you're :welcome:

sawyer
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by sawyer

airwise wrote:Indeed. One of my favourite shots of last year is the one of Eddy B-H winning the sprint against Hushovd and Goss in the Tour. He's the only one on a non aero frame. He is however wearing shoe covers - an accessory which reduces drag by more than a fancy frame whilst not impacting the wallet. If manufacturers could make massive money on shoe covers I suspect this fact would be better known...


I am sure manufacturers could make a lot of money on aero shoe covers if the product was sufficiently differentiated and the advantages credible.

Where's the data on shoe covers reducing drag more than aero frames?
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Stiff, Light, Aero - Pick Three!! :thumbup:

tanhalt
Posts: 109
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2006 6:36 pm

by tanhalt

sawyer wrote:
airwise wrote:Indeed. One of my favourite shots of last year is the one of Eddy B-H winning the sprint against Hushovd and Goss in the Tour. He's the only one on a non aero frame. He is however wearing shoe covers - an accessory which reduces drag by more than a fancy frame whilst not impacting the wallet. If manufacturers could make massive money on shoe covers I suspect this fact would be better known...


I am sure manufacturers could make a lot of money on aero shoe covers if the product was sufficiently differentiated and the advantages credible.

Where's the data on shoe covers reducing drag more than aero frames?


I've actually seen data that depending on the shoe and the cover material (plain lycra = not good), covers are actually slower than no covers at all

airwise
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by airwise

sawyer wrote:Where's the data on shoe covers reducing drag more than aero frames?


There's plenty of data - most recently Top Velo wind tunnel tests showed just how insignificant the savings were with the S3 for instance.

The shoe cover data came from wind tunnel tests carried out for Aerosports Research between 2008 and 2010.

http://www.aerosportsresearch.com/image ... 2010_2.jpg

tanhalt
Posts: 109
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2006 6:36 pm

by tanhalt

airwise wrote:
sawyer wrote:Where's the data on shoe covers reducing drag more than aero frames?


There's plenty of data - most recently Top Velo wind tunnel tests showed just how insignificant the savings were with the S3 for instance.


Huh? There's plenty of data (i.e. VN, Tour) which shows just the opposite. BTW, don't forget to take notice of error bars in any data...and if no error bars are shown :doh:


airwise wrote:The shoe cover data came from wind tunnel tests carried out for Aerosports Research between 2008 and 2010.

http://www.aerosportsresearch.com/image ... 2010_2.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


I don't see anything in that link with actual data. In fact, look at the paper in the link below. It implies that in some situations, a shoe cover may be worse than no cover at all.

http://www.mediafire.com/?gxhmxvhgxizksxg

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kgt
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Location: Athens, Greece

by kgt

Very interesting! So in a tt race shoe covers will slow you down! :mrgreen:
Anyway, if you ask me I don't think you can actually calculate the aero properties of a moving human body riding a bike. It's too f@cking complex mathematics.

tanhalt
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Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2006 6:36 pm

by tanhalt

kgt wrote:Very interesting! So in a tt race shoe covers will slow you down! :mrgreen:
Anyway, if you ask me I don't think you can actually calculate the aero properties of a moving human body riding a bike. It's too f@cking complex mathematics.


Perhaps (even though CFD code and parallel processing seems to do a fairly good job), but you CAN measure it.

rruff
Shop Owner
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by rruff

tanhalt wrote:I don't see anything in that link with actual data. In fact, look at the paper in the link below. It implies that in some situations, a shoe cover may be worse than no cover at all.

http://www.mediafire.com/?gxhmxvhgxizksxg


That looks like a good test. It would be nearly impossible for someone testing an entire bike and rider to get the error low enough to discern these small differences. I'm convinced that is a big reason why people make "unusual" and often contradictory claims regarding aero.

nigel379
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Joined: Sat Jun 20, 2009 3:23 am

by nigel379

Can anyone that has the e-magazine post the weight (F/F) and stiffness numbers of the frames. If I had an ipad I certainly would have a subscription. Really wish they just do other electronic subscriptions.

Mikmik
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Joined: Tue Sep 28, 2010 10:30 pm

by Mikmik

Discoverspeed wrote:This photo has been posted before and it looks to me that an aero frame, a pair of aero wheels with a super rider edged this win... maybe gloveless helped in aerodynamics too? :wink:

Image


What a load of BS. The aeroness of his frame/wheels is such a negligible part that I won't even entertain the thought....I'll leave that to the marketeers of these companies who pedal the mostly unneeded and often overly overpriced equipment. They LOVE to tell you how important it is that their frame is claimed to be x-% faster better stiffer than their opposition.

To put a different spin on it what if; 1 rider was exposed to the wind just that little bit more on the day during the race. If he had a bit less sleep than the other, if he was not fuelled properly for the last 40kms, if he expelled far too much energy getting in position for the sprint, if his training weeks prior was upset by an upset stomach etc etc.
It's not how much you spend on a bike it's how hard you can ride it.

lcoolb
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Location: Jakarta, Indonesia / The Hague, Holland

by lcoolb

I think you may be missing the point, Mikmik...

by Weenie


Mikmik
Posts: 313
Joined: Tue Sep 28, 2010 10:30 pm

by Mikmik

maybe......but then again I am not one for buying into the 'new' hype all the time either. There is a lot that goes on before the finish-line (and even before a race in prep of) that counts a lot more. If you are talking about TTs then that is a slightly different story.

Am I way off? :)
It's not how much you spend on a bike it's how hard you can ride it.

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