Hammer

At the joint there are 4 links - not 2.....so take the .08 mm x 4....

Well, if true, that would put it 0.06 mm in the other direction, which is more than can be explained by any rounding. So it still doesn't "add up".

the plates and roller dont touch, there a gap between them so the overal width is wider than the sum of its parts

Question- I hear the chainring offset is the same between the 7900 and 9000 crank. Does this mean therefore you could use a 7900 groupset with only the 9000 crank? Or is this just getting into PITA territory?

I'm really impressed with details of the 9000 group. I think the biggest letdown of 7900 which has been mentioned by Fairwheelbikes is the rear shifting- the way in which you required a lot more effort to get the slower gears, while downshifting towards to the other end felt like it ran out of spring tension. Will be really keen to see how they have improved this.

My only other comment would be why have they redesigned the brakes so much when the existing 7900 ones are already so good? The new 9000 brakes look quite 'complex' in the design and therefore more parts to fail? We'll see.

Madcow,

You mention that both 9000 and 9070 are very close in terms of shifter hood shape. How close are 9000 to current 7970 DI2 hoods? For me 7970 are the standard that all others must strive for in terms of shape and feel.

thanks,
Geoff

This is my favorite part of the whole thing. And addresses a longstanding pet peeve of mine. If you take your dual pivot caliper off your bike and squeeze the pads together you'll notice immediately that things don't line up. No your brake isn't broken, but i believe the dual pivot execution is. You'll also notice this if you back out the adjustment screw on the major link by the way. The brake is not symmetrical. Mine aren't yours aren't nobody's are except those who run single pivots. The pseudo U-brake layout of the new brake fixes that.
Screw the rest honestly. My 2008 Centaur is better than fine; combined with an 6700 crank. Reduced bracing angle? That's the last thing we need, shit in ten years people are going to be riding 1200g 29er wheels with parallel spokes and wondering why they don't stay straight.

I'm far too young to be a retro grouch.

_________________
it's actually possible to come to the conclusion even before realising it makes no sense at all
-
tymon_tm

and those that run EE (i love them)

but i know what you mean. the fact that dual pivot brakes have dual leverages, differing pad arcs per side, etc, is really annoying to me.
now i kinda wonder if EE would make a brake or adapt the current one to fit the dual post arrangement... but that's another topic.

Fo sho! Wide flanges, low dish FTW. Many roadies seem to think any widening of the rear spacing will negatively affect their q-factor and ankle clearance, despite the fact that very few people actually need to be that narrow* or have cranksets which wouldn't work with wider rear spacing on a road bike. I understand why Shimano and Campagnolo would want to retain some aspects of cross compatibility and not change the spacing but from a technical standpoint it's really quite a limiting factor to building good, cheap and 'simple' wheels.

*those who pedal majorly heal-in could suffer from say 2.5mm added to either side, but who cares about them, they ride like a duck

Maybe I missed this info somewhere, but when is 9070 available? Any thoughts on which I should get, EPS or 9070?

9070 will crush EPS, but don't expect it out until 2013

Personal preference, local availability and financial considerations will rule that one.

If you're a Campagnolo guy, you'll pay the likely cost premium and accept the lower availability because you like the levers.
If you're a Shimano guy, you'll buy 9070.

Hm, certainly a 9070 programmed to 10speed sound like a good idea.

Actually I got thinking... One could run a mechanical 9000 as a 10speed system.
Just leave one single cog out from the 11sp casette, use a thick spacer on a 10speed freewheel body and set the limit screw to stop you overshifting into the spokes.

Not much point to do so except that you can use your current wheels.

My thinking exactly ave - it's what I plan to do to upgrade my current 7970 Di2, and how I plan to run DA9000 on my 2nd bike.

I don't have the money to change all my wheelsets too, and I can do without the 11th gear.

A bit silly don't you think? Comparing a 2nd generation to a 1st...a bit of logical thinking would be to compare both 2nd gen?

_________________
"It never gets easier, you just go faster..." - Greg Lemond

"Because technology alone is a poor substitute for experience." - Richard Sachs

Not if 2nd gen Campagnolo is not out.