Dura Ace 9000 - ETA late 2012/early 2013

[spartan]

madcow

do you know if the current chris king r45 freehub will be upgradable to 11speed. i talked to a chris king rep and he had know idea about the new 11speed spec...

will shimano sell 24h dura-ace hubs next year?

[Bikelife]

Hi all, I have been chasing info wrt DA11 compatibility for Chris King & DT Swiss Hubs.

DT Swiss have responded to say all 2013 Shimano Hubs will be DA11 compatible and a DA11 adaptor kit for earlier hubs (? new freehub body & shorter NDS end) will be available after Eurobike.

There is a supposed DT schematic that might be correct on bikerumour.cc that is consistent with this, and pictures on bikeradar of the 2013 hubs. Information has varied but it does seem possible that the hub width (OLN) has increased to 131 mm, but either way the hub flanges have to be "rejigged" slightly to the NDS to allow for the longer freehub body. This is more of a problem for manufacturers when the flanges & hub shell are one-piece, or there aren't swappable freehub bodies.

Chris King info was harder to get, but finally (from their marketing dept):
"The new Shimano 11spd system requires some changes to current rear hub designs to allow for the increased length of the splines for cassettes. To be compatible with Shimano 11spd, Chris King R45, Classic, and Cross 130mm hubs will require a new, longer driveshell and a new axle to properly position the hub with the new driveshell. In addition, built wheels will need to be re-dished a few millimeters. Chris King hubs updated with 11spd will be reverse compatible with 8,9, and 10spd systems by using a spacer placed behind the cassette."

WRT DT Swiss, does anybody know:
1) Are the 2013 Shimano DA-11 compatible 240s & 180 hubs different in any other respect?
2) Will the SPLINE (straight-pull in line) hubs be available as a separate item next year, and what is their weight?
3) Are/Will the DT190 (ceramic, but not carbon) hubs still be available?

Regards,
Bikelife
Brisbane

[racer1]

I was able to ride the new DA 9000 group yesterday and boy was I impressed. It blows DA 7900 out of the water in pretty much every department. The front shifting is the most impressive, it is almost effortless. The cranks really look good in person and the new finish looks great and appears to be durable as well. I am very excited about this group and only a proposed 5% increase is totally worth it. I will try to post some of my cell phone pics asap

[justkeepedaling]

Wow, so lucky to try it so early! What frame is that, by the way? Is the rear shifting as light as stated (with equal ease up and down the cassette) and is there a definite feel for shifting gears? How are the brakes?

[racer1]

Wow, so lucky to try it so early! What frame is that, by the way? Is the rear shifting as light as stated (with equal ease up and down the cassette) and is there a definite feel for shifting gears? How are the brakes?

Brakes feel very powerful and almost friction free. The rear shifting was very smooth and easy, I would say smoother than 7800 and not quite as clunky, but it does have an audible click to it so you know you shifted it. I was so focused on the fd adn rd shifting feel plus the grip egonomics that I forgot they added the 11th cog. The cassette is impressive as it is only supposed to be 3 grams heavier than the 7900 cassette with the extra gear due to a carbon spider. The frame is an Intense road frame just to hang some parts on. I was super excited to get to ride it and I cannot wait until it really starts to hit the market.

[SuperDave]

I have followed this from the beginning and I am not sure on the wiring aspect of the 9070 DI2. I get that it will employ the same E-Tube wiring as used on the Ultegra DI2 setup, but it is the same? Can you plug in the new 9070 DI2 components into a frame built with internal Ultegra DI2 wiring, and have it work as it should?

With Juntion B, yes, but there are improvements to the new wires/junctions as well and the old SD-EW50 will be out of favor for the battery/charging port options on the new system.

-SD

[ave]

Maybe I jumped over it, but how many gears the 9000 rear STI can shift in one stroke? Is it just two like with 7900?

[CerveloMikey]

Maybe I jumped over it, but how many gears the 9000 rear STI can shift in one stroke? Is it just two like with 7900?

7900 Di2 is one shift per button press. 9000 Di2 is programable for multi shifts if you hold the button down.

From Fairwheel blog... "The biggest change I see in the front shifter is for a programmable multi-shift function. This allows dumping your selected number of gears. Push the button quickly once and you get a single shift, pushing and holding the button results in shifting however many shifts you have programmed it to execute. You can choose anything from a double shift up to 10 shifts moving from one end of the cassette to the other."

[Ypsylon]

I believe he was asking about the mechanical group...

[CerveloMikey]

I believe he was asking about the mechanical group...

Good catch!

[ave]

Indeed, and it seems like noone knows?

[hjb1000]

Indeed, and it seems like noone knows?

I'd say there is a pretty good chance it will be 3 +. Shimano say they have adopted their 'Vivid Index' design which is similar in principle to current gen Dyna-Sys. I've got the M980 shifters and they can do crazy multi shifts. We hope anyway.

[justkeepedaling]

3 to go down the cassete, one to go up according to road.cc

This is typical Shimano setup. http://road.cc/content/news/58457-first ... e-11-speed

[MarkThailand]

I am already planning on my next road bike using the new Shimano DA DI2 9070.

The first steps are understanding the various components requirements since I will be ordering a custom frame. I would like help identifying all the potential issues and possible solutions.

Issue 1: The rear wheel hub will be an issue due to the new 11-speed wider cassette, which I have now found that it will not be as simple as using a Campy 11-speed compatible hub. Chris King and White Industries will probably be releasing a new Shimano 11-speed compatible rear hub in Sept 2012. I guess the other major brands will follow suit shortly.

Issue 2: I read somewhere that the Front Derailleur will have the control wire/cable come out the back to help with wiring neatness issues. I do not understand this. I have looked closely at a lot of pics and can not see how this would help. For the current DI2, the cable wire hole in the seat post is on the front side, away from the rear tire. I don't understand how placing the control wire/cable in the back would allow for the seatpost hole in the back since would this interfere with the back wheel?

Issue 3: The crank's beauty is in the eye of the beholder. But, I believe I can use a Rotor crankset or the Hollowgram SISL crank for the PF30 bottom bracket of my intended bike. This option should save almost 120 grams.

Issue 4: The internal battery option would reduce the number of frame holes by two and clean up the look of the bike - this is the major selling point of the 9070 system.

Issue 5: The brakes might be powerful and great but are quite heavy at 294 grams (minimum). I can always use a lighter brake like the eebrakes. This should save me almost 130 grams.

Issue 6: The junction box will have five connecting points, including a recharging port. This is a major selling point.

Issue 7: The system brain is programmable to allow for multiple up shifts and down shifts. Great!

Issue 8: The Flight Deck control unit confuses me. What happens to my Garmin 500 or Cateye unit. I don't fancy having two computers on my bike. The only clean place is the center of the stem. Any ideas?

Issue 9: The overall group set weight is kind of high. But, the two options above, I should be able to tr the weight down by 250 grams. Any other suggestions (not involving a dremmel).
That's it for now.

Mark

[edroc73rp]

The new brakes are heavier by at least 4 grams (+/- 297g vs. 293g) over the 7900 version with claimed better modulation and more power. I don't remember anyone complaining about the lack of power with Dura-ace brakes, if anything it's always been the benchmark. You'd think if they went out to improve on the design they'd focus on the weight reduction. It doesn't make much sense to me as well to get the 9000 series brakes and cranks if there is a weight penalty.