Dura Ace 9000 - ETA late 2012/early 2013

[Permon]

I'm really excited - I love the look of the group.

Yeah, the group looks quite OK. BUT, the bolt of the rear der looks so WRONG! Oh, WHY?

[spartan]

madcow, excellent job on the dura ace 900 articles. something no one has mentioned is the current ultegra di2 will be software upgradable to 11 speed. i predict sram red will quietly move to 11 speed for 2014.

"Even though Ultegra Di2 doesn’t have any mechanical changes for 2013, it rides the coat tails of Dura-Ace Di2 9070 and gains some cool upgrades. Since the two Di2 groups will now be sharing the same E-tube wiring harness, the new three or five port junction box can be used with Ultegra, allowing satellite shifters to be added (satellite shifters were not available for Ultegra Di2 for 2012). But, the biggest news is that with an 11-speed wheel, cassette and chain upgrade, the current 10-speed Ultegra Di2 can be converted to 11-speed. Syncing your system to the E-tube software will give you the option of changing the shifters and derailleurs from 10 to 11-speed"

http://www.roadbikeaction.com/Tech-Features/content/67/5089/Shimano-Dura-Ace-goes-11-speed.html

[kevinkalis]

Wow, Ultegra Di2 is looking like an awesome deal now

[Briscoelab]

Glad I picked up some Ultegra Di2 earlier this year It works brilliant with 7900 brakes, crank, and cassette.

[5 8 5]

madcow, excellent job on the dura ace 900 articles. something no one has mentioned is the current ultegra di2 will be software upgradable to 11 speed.

To be fair to macow he does mention it here -
http://fairwheelbikes.com/cycling-blog/updates-and-news/shimano-2013-part-2-9070-di2-dura-ace.html

"One interesting thing about the Flight Deck is that it is 10 and 11 speed compatible, which confirms full compatibility with Ultegra parts. With the ability to update firmware through downloads now, it also adds some interesting possibilities. Could current Ultegra eventually be changed to 11 speed through a simple firm ware update? We don’t see any reason why this wouldn’t be the case".

[Ypsylon]

Looks to me like Ultegra di2 levers will not accept the sprint buttons, though. But if you can mix&match, that'll definetly be nice.

[leosantos]

I read that the brakes will only accept a rim up to 24mm wide, or 28mm with special thin pads. What does that mean in practice for zipp, hed, etc users that are used to a particular set of pads?

[ParisCarbon]

Not a Shimano guy, but I like the factory internal battery....
Now the question is.. how long til Campagnolo EPS 2.0 with internal...

[rruff]

Basically any company that makes an existing hub which can be switched from Shimano to Campag or vice versa without redishing (DT, Tune 170 etc...) should have no real issue putting the new freehub body on the existing hub shell. Those that do not have that ability, (Alchemy, Tune 180 etc...) will have more trouble making it work. Some will be able to and others won't.

Yikes... now Shimano has every bit as much dish as Campy. In fact it would appear that they are very close. I'll be interested to see if the spacing is so similar now that the two (S11 and C11) are compatible.

Also, Shimano has gone triplet with their wheel, for the same reason Campy did... with poor DS spacing, it becomes difficult to build a light-stiff wheelset with conventional lacing. I predict many more triplet wheels in our future...

Most hubs that do *not* have a quick-swap cassette, have flange spacing that is optimized for the S freehub... and the C version just moves everything over a couple mms. I doubt it will be difficult to retrofit S10 for S11, but of course you will need the new cassette body, and will need a redish. Possibly the existing axles and spacers for C11 will work.

[Gearjunkie]

Like others have said, nice work Madcow. Love your work

Coupla questions:
1. Will the DA9000 FD work with old Sram Red levers?

2. What does the new crank (including BB and rings) weigh?

Thanks again!

GJ

[Gazelleer]

Please see the item on bikerumor.com for weights. Interestingly Di2 will be lighter than mechanical.

[madcow]

Do you know if this will mean that existing Campag specifc hubs (you list Alchemy, Tune 180 and I assume DT 190) can be switched to S11 config without a redish?

That should be the case.

Is there a definitive conclusion yet, as to whether it will be possible to use 10-speed wheels with an otherwise DA 9000 bike? I'm not going to upgrade all my rides ...

Nothing definitive yet. Wayne has been riding a 10 speed cassette with the new group for a few months and doesn't seem to have any problems with it, so it looks like it works. The real question is how well will it work. My thought would be the change the freehub bodies on all my wheels to 11 speed and then use the spacer kit to convert some back to 10 speed for the other bikes. That way any wheelset works with any of your bikes.

Anyone knows if the new internal battery would work with older Di2 setups?

Although if it can be charged through Junction-A then most likely not...

The stock battery is the only piece from the new group that works with the old group. However the internal battery is a different beast and my guess is no it won't work, at least not without some hacking. If you have the old group you're probably better off with the Calfee battery for internal.

Hmmm. I have been using DI2 since Aug 09 and have had no issues. However, the sight of 9000 and the reports so far of it working really well and being an improvement on 7800 (the best ever Shimano mech group in my mind - 7900 was crap!) have me thinking of "downgrading" from DI2 to mechanical.

As much as I love DI2, I do miss the satisfying snap of an STI lever executing a downshift.

Anyone else having similar thoughts? I may not need 11 cogs out back, but I would love an 18 in the middle of my 12-25 cassette.

Funny thing is this is almost exactly what I thought after spending a little time on the 9000 group. However I've realized that I can't go back. While I'll definitely be getting a 9000 group my mainstay will still be Di2.

I found more different photos from the Di2 rear derailleur:

..they don't look the same to me

Gazelleer is correct, both are Di2. The top is pre production and the lower is the production version.

Loved the Bike Radar [p]review of the new DA. Apparently 7900 has poor front shifting and crappy brakes.

I thought that was pretty funny too. I personally don't like 7900 shifting but more on principle than actual performance, but to say that the brakes on 7900 were the thing that were most in need of being upgraded is just beyond me.

madcow, excellent job on the dura ace 900 articles. something no one has mentioned is the current ultegra di2 will be software upgradable to 11 speed. i predict sram red will quietly move to 11 speed for 2014.

I talked to one of the engineers about firmware updates and while everyone agrees that it is a possibility at this time nobody can say for sure if it's going to happen. I do think that next year we'll see an Ultegra version of the new groups which is why I think they skipped the 8000 series leaving it empty for Ultegra to slot into.

I do agree with you on Sram especially since a 1x11 mtb version has been floating around lately. While Sram does have decent market share in road, they still rely mostly on mtb. Shimano's dynasys was a huge break for them and has chewed into Sram's mtb market share. So now Sram has to worry about Shimano on 3 fronts, mechanical, Di2 and mountain. My guess is Sram will push the 11 speed out first on the mtb hoping to make some gains there. Then of course it's inevitable that XTR Di2 will roll out after that and put them back in the same position. My hope is that Sram jumps straight to 11 speed electronic in the mtb world to try and get a foothold. However getting past all the Shimano/Campag electronic patents is not going to be easy.

Coupla questions:
1. Will the DA9000 FD work with old Sram Red levers?

2. What does the new crank (including BB and rings) weigh?

1. While nobody has yet tested it, I just can't see how it could possibly work, they are just too different.

2. 683 grams totaled and complete with all hardware.

[commfire]

Great stuff,
Maybe to early to know but will the drive train be compatible with other cranksets/chain rings....ie cannonade hollowgram?

[Gazelleer]

Yes, chainring spacing is supposed to be identical to 10-speed.

[Gazelleer]

From the Dutch Fiets magazine website:

De 11 speed cassette is twee millimeter breder dan de oude 10 speed groep. De dikte van de kransjes is gelijk gebleven, de tussenringen zijn iets smaller geworden.

The 11 speed cassette is two millimeters wider than the old 10 speed group. The thickness of the sprockets is unchanged, the washers are slightly narrower.