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PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 12:04 am 
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Hello

I was wondering, as there is about to be presented a new Sram Red group, if theres also a new Sram Force gruop on the way?

What would you think? Anybody who knows anything... A new Force group would be nice in the late 12 or early 13, dont you think?

A group like that would probably be scaling under 2000 grms or what?


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Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 12:04 am 


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 1:29 am 
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I hope so- and I hope they do zero loss on both shifters, just delete the ceramic bearings and some of the more expensive materials that make little difference to the final weight.
Of course the cranks will weigh more even if they do new cranks. Same design as the new red but with a foam core instead of hollow to reduce cost?

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 4:15 am 
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New Force most likely in 2013, announced late 2012.
New Rival most likely late 2013, announced mid 2013.
New Apex most likely early 2014, announced late 2013.

Lather, Rinse, Repeat.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 1:47 pm 
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Sounds possible. I'd hope that the new Force would be out around February/March, so i can get on the bike i'm saving money for, in 2013.

What about price point then? A New Force-group today cost ca. 800 euros (ca. 1000 dollars). Would a realistic price point be 1000 euros and a weight under 2 kilos? (I know that the SRAM Force being sold right now, is selled as a sub 2 kilo group (
(must be without cables then...)).

But i'd never buy a Force crankset. Many of my clubbuddies have had them, and haited them. One changed to Rotor and another simply to a Red crank (Thats uncool looking on the bike, in my believe).

And Sram should get a thumbs up for keeping the 10-speed standard. Actually i believe that Shimano has shot them selves in the foot, when chaning to 11-speed without also making a 14, 13 and 16 casettes for junior and children riders.

In Denmark you must have a 14 casette both as U15, U17 and junior... I actually think Shimano will loose customers here while just fedding SRAM with thier Shimano 6600 10-speed casette with the 14, 13 and 16-ratio!


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 4:30 am 
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My guess is old Red becomes new Force and so on down the line. I would think that they should have it old by the end of the year.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 5:26 am 
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I'd like to see red as being the "tuned" force group. Have all the same functions in force:
-briftor zero loss
-new single pivot brakes
-new FD design
-same forgings as the new red RD
-same crank style
But then just remove some of the Ti/CF and ceramic bearings, and make the crank foam core not hollow.
Rival then seminar with the dual pivot brakes with basic materials, same CF levers but no zero loss, same layout FD and RD but cost reduced, and maybe picks up the older force crank etc.

This is the sort of thing Shimano and campy do with great success. It spreads the tooling cost for the common pieces over more parts, you just give things a different colour and save on the fancy material costs for the lower group sets. Campy also have identical looking cranks, just cheaper rings, hardware, and foam cores etc.

I would find a cost reduced red to be hard to resist, but spending the extra for red is harder to justify for me.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 8:17 pm 
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Phill P wrote:
I'd like to see red as being the "tuned" force group. Have all the same functions in force:
This is the sort of thing Shimano and campy do with great success. It spreads the tooling cost for the common pieces over more parts, you just give things a different colour and save on the fancy material costs for the lower group sets. Campy also have identical looking cranks, just cheaper rings, hardware, and foam cores etc.

I would find a cost reduced red to be hard to resist, but spending the extra for red is harder to justify for me.


Wow. Never thought about it like that,
but that's exactly what Dura-Ace 7800 is compared to Ultegra 6600.
I'm sure everyone here has seen the Bikesport Michigan breakdown on the two groups:
http://www.bikesportmichigan.com/features/dura-ace-ultegra.shtml

I've seen the same combination on a lot of SRAM builds:
Red Shifters, Brakes with Force Drivetrain & Crankset.
I'm pretty sure my next bike will be Full SRAM Red.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 3:43 pm 
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Phill P wrote:
I'd like to see red as being the "tuned" force group. Have all the same functions in force:
-briftor zero loss
-new single pivot brakes
-new FD design
-same forgings as the new red RD
-same crank style
But then just remove some of the Ti/CF and ceramic bearings, and make the crank foam core not hollow.
Rival then seminar with the dual pivot brakes with basic materials, same CF levers but no zero loss, same layout FD and RD but cost reduced, and maybe picks up the older force crank etc.

This is the sort of thing Shimano and campy do with great success. It spreads the tooling cost for the common pieces over more parts, you just give things a different colour and save on the fancy material costs for the lower group sets. Campy also have identical looking cranks, just cheaper rings, hardware, and foam cores etc.

I would find a cost reduced red to be hard to resist, but spending the extra for red is harder to justify for me.


With the exception of Zero Loss on the right shifter, Sram already does this. The shifters, brakes, derailleurs and cranks are nearly identical except for the combination of materials.

As for when a new force comes out, I'd venture a year from now. That is how Sram and Shimano have done it in the past - roll out the top of the line group then a year later roll out a new second tier group....


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 4:07 pm 
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Bregne wrote:
...But i'd never buy a Force crankset. Many of my clubbuddies have had them, and haited them. One changed to Rotor and another simply to a Red crank (Thats uncool looking on the bike, in my believe)...


Could you be more specific on why don't they like the Force crankset?... I'm currently using Force BB30 set. I can't really complain, but then again I haven't tried anything more fancy. I was thinking of getting the 2012 RED chainrings (when they're out) for my Force cranks, but if the Force cranks aren't that good maybe I should upgrade the whole set?

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 6:09 am 
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Aren't the BB30 cranks the same except for the decals? :noidea:


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 6:37 am 
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I just hope that the new force is full black like rival or 105. Either that or the current force group on a new black version.

I really dislike both force and ultegra kind of gray colors (not silver, not black, too much color ambiguity), and I don't understand why both groups beyond it (red and dura-ace) and below it (105 and rival) are avaiblable in a much nicer, contemporary full black. Silver is really outdated in terms of appearance; dark grey it's even worse IMHO.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 11:22 am 
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I'd hope that the new Force group we're speculating in will be out for the model year 2013, so the manufacturers standard bikes can be equipped with the new Force. That would be really nice.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 10:52 pm 
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indrek wrote:
Bregne wrote:
...But i'd never buy a Force crankset. Many of my clubbuddies have had them, and haited them. One changed to Rotor and another simply to a Red crank (Thats uncool looking on the bike, in my believe)...


Could you be more specific on why don't they like the Force crankset?... I'm currently using Force BB30 set. I can't really complain, but then again I haven't tried anything more fancy. I was thinking of getting the 2012 RED chainrings (when they're out) for my Force cranks, but if the Force cranks aren't that good maybe I should upgrade the whole set?


Well as i understood it, he thought it was to thick and clumsy all over. He's a guy with a lot of watts in his legs, so he definetly needs something to be superior stiff. I've tried his bike, and actually i'd prefer my Ultegra 6700 above his Force crank. I just think i'd prefer a alu-crank, as the carbon ones i've tried (including Force, Red and SL-K by FSA) has tended to flex a bit about. I just think that a Rotor would be quite right for me.

But no words on a upcoming Force yet? And when can we expect more details on the new Red... It's supposed to be in stores by february, and that's soon!


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:52 pm 
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Now... anything new, as the Red has been presented. Google didn't turn out very much but i hope some of you might have a word or two on a new Force.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 2:17 am 
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History repeats itself.

Look to the 'trickle down' schedule and differentiation between the previous generation of Red and Force.

Don't expect to hear much on force until its close to introduction. SRAM did a pretty good job keeping the latest Red under wraps. Yeah a couple leaked images, but they didn't hit the web until a few weeks or so before the formal announcement.

Check back towards the bike show season in the fall. My guess is thats when we'll start seeing 2013 bikes spec'd with both new red and force.

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Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 2:17 am 


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